C&R license

[JohnH]

Is this really worth getting?

[waksupi]

I've had mine for 4-5 years now, maybe longer.
It's nice to be able to buy the neat milsurps from Shotgun News, at the advertised price. And having them delivered directly to you, with no middleman, or markup. This includes rifles, pistols, and shotguns, some rather exotic items that are on the C&R list.
Better yet, is the discount you get from various suppliers. Just my purchases from Brownell's, more than make up for the cost of the license in six months time.
They are cheap to get, and a pleasure to be able to use.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I'll swear to everything Waksupi said. I would like to add that over nearly six years I have found all the ATF people I have dealt with to be polite, helpful, and non-intrusive. Real help on the law is only a phone call away.

[Herb in Pa]

It's a real benefit for the discounts available from various suppliers. The only downside (?) is that it's way too easy to pick up the phone or hit the various websites for firearms that arrive on your doorstep just like the good old pre '68 days.

[Wayne Smith]

I concur. The discounts alone make it worth it. Of course, that means you're spending more too, most likely. Midway, Graff's, and Brownells all give dealer pricing, and I'm sure there's many more. Being able to buy off the auction sites is also very handy, except for the budget! For me, everything's a project, so it's not only the firearm, but the dies, the brass, the bullet molds, etc. You see, for me the dealer pricing is the best part.

I also concur on the quality of the BATF people. They had to come out to interview me for my ammo manufacturer's license, and were very nice.

[woody1]

Is this really worth getting?

Like they said, YUP!
Regards, Woody

[Shepherd2]

I concur with the previous posters. The savings on my first order to Brownells, after I got my C&R, paid for my license. The downside is that you need to learn self control. It's so easy to pick up the phone and have that milsurp you saw in Shotgun News delivered to your door.

[grumble]

I've had a C&R for several years, and use it quite a bit.

I filled out the first application just before the Bush-Gore election, and held on to the paperwork until it was clear that Bush won the election, then sent it in. I think I'll do the same after my current license expires to make sure I'm not a licensee if a gun-unfriendly administration comes into power.

The law is written such that any FFL holder can be subject to warantless searches, and criminal penalties may apply if errors are found in recordkeeping. So, yeah, a C&R is a great thing to have, but if the BATFE decides to do some heavy-handed enforcement at the political discretion of a new administration, holding the license could easily become a liability.

At $30 for three years, it's an unbeatable deal, so long as the political climate isn't against us. I'm sure that you can imagine as well as I can what an anti gun news media would have to say about us collectors amassing "high powered sniper rifles" and numerous handguns that could be disbursed to the "violent criminal element" without the need for a NICS check.

[Wayne Smith]

Just remember, if you buy a firearm with your C&R it is collectable and not subject to change. If you make any changes such that it cannot be returned to original condition it is no longer C&R eligable. Simply write in your record "No longer C&R eligible" in the area for identifying the person to whom you sell it.

My Chileano 1895 Mauser, completely changed, is so identified in my record.

[Bear4570]

Worth every dime, sorry I did not do it years ago...

[Ken O]

I'm interested in this, how do you apply? They dont require you to record or register your non C&R type firearms do they?

[Rrusse11]

I'm interested in this, how do you apply? They dont require you to record or register your non C&R type firearms do they?

Ken,

http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm

You need form 7CR.

Cheers,
R*2

[BLTsandwedge1]

Many thanks R*2.....that was easy to order the form. Now I wonder how the good ol' state of California will enter the picture........

Regards........

[Scrounger]

Many thanks R*2.....that was easy to order the form. Now I wonder how the good ol' state of California will enter the picture........

Regards........

I don't think California recognizes the C&R License; If you don't have the regular 01 FFL (There are 1 or 2 others they OK) AND the California license from DOJ, then you are simply an unlicensed person. Which isn't to say some C&R holders and wholesalers WON'T ship to you, but if the state finds out, you're in deep dodo. By the way, one of the C&R form requirements is that you send a letter to your county sheriff informing him you are applying for the license. It might be a good idea to call him first and discuss the legal issues the state laws bring into play. Good luck.

[BLTsandwedge1]

I don't think California recognizes the C&R License; If you don't have the regular 01 FFL (There are 1 or 2 others they OK) AND the California license from DOJ, then you are simply an unlicensed person. Which isn't to say some C&R holders and wholesalers WON'T ship to you, but if the state finds out, you're in deep dodo. By the way, one of the C&R form requirements is that you send a letter to your county sheriff informing him you are applying for the license. It might be a good idea to call him first and discuss the legal issues the state laws bring into play. Good luck.

Lawdy Lawdy how I love this state! No such thing as personal liberties, $2.60 for a gallon of gas, 1 shooting range within 50 miles. If I had to buy my house again in the same neighborhood there's no way in hell I could do it; I can't add on to my house either- I don't have enough water credits. (the municipality may auction a few water credits- a credit equals a toilet or a sink or a shower- you need 3 credits to add a full bathroom- expected auction price? Twenty-thousand dollars per credit).

Bitchin' over, 5 years and counting.......

[NVcurmudgeon]

FWIW, I had a C&R license in Livermore, CA from 1999 to 2004. I was required to notify the Livermore Chief of Police of my intention. He approved me and was surprised to be asked. While living in CA, I bought two milsurp rifles and two milsurp pistols on my C&R All were delivered to my house. I had to sign for the pistols, but the rifles were left on the porch. When I moved to Nevada, transferring my C&R to new "licensed premises" in this state took only a phone call to ATFE. Again, ATFE has always been helpful, polite and non-intrusive in my experience.

[NVcurmudgeon]

BLTsandwedge, I love THIS state, having enjoyed about as much of CA as I can stand. This weekend there is a big CAS shoot in Fernley, 40 miles from here. It is advertised on the radio, with advertising "paid for by the Lyon County room tax." Also, at Mustang, just east of sparks, there is a class III weapons shoot. The public is encouraged to rent the AK, M-16, Thompson, etc. of their choice and shoot. This event is advertised on the radio also, with particular attention to pointing out that the venue is "a Feinstein-free zone."

Be comforted with the knowledge that when you've had enough, you can sell out for enough to buy a better house in a decent state. My wife is in ladies room Heaven. We have 2 1/2 baths, up from one, with unlimited well water.
We do have to pay the power company to keep our pump running, and they don't accept credits, neither water credits nor Heinlein space credits.

[BLTsandwedge1]

BLTsandwedge, I love THIS state, having enjoyed about as much of CA as I can stand. This weekend there is a big CAS shoot in Fernley, 40 miles from here. It is advertised on the radio, with advertising "paid for by the Lyon County room tax." Also, at Mustang, just east of sparks, there is a class III weapons shoot. The public is encouraged to rent the AK, M-16, Thompson, etc. of their choice and shoot. This event is advertised on the radio also, with particular attention to pointing out that the venue is "a Feinstein-free zone."

Be comforted with the knowledge that when you've had enough, you can sell out for enough to buy a better house in a decent state. My wife is in ladies room Heaven. We have 2 1/2 baths, up from one, with unlimited well water.
We do have to pay the power company to keep our pump running, and they don't accept credits, neither water credits nor Heinlein space credits.

Sure....go ahead and rub it in.... My only positive comment is that the 17 mile strip of beach that my resort sits on attracts some of the most "healthy" looking women on the planet........

[C1PNR]

BLTsandwedge1,

Just took a look at my CA C&R "Bound Book" and note I bought two C&R rifles in July, 2004. Delivered to my door by UPS and/or USPS. I left in December and am not aware of any changes in State law as regards C&R rules prior to my leaving.

As we all know, anything is possible with that "crew" we have (pardon me, of the two of us, it's now only YOU who have) in Sacramento.

That said, I haven't seen anything in "The Firing Line" about any new "anti gun" legislation being passed. I did maintain my membership in the CRPA. Even if I'm gone now, I can still help a little bit.

The only local regulation type problem I can think of just now is the requirement for an "approved by the State" safe for long arms, or a proveably new (within the last 30 days) gun lock for each newly purchased long arm. Oh yeah, the gun lock has to be one "approved" by the State, not just any old gun lock.

Good luck battling your new addiction to old long arms!

[Scrounger]

BLTsandwedge1,

Just took a look at my CA C&R "Bound Book" and note I bought two C&R rifles in July, 2004. Delivered to my door by UPS and/or USPS. I left in December and am not aware of any changes in State law as regards C&R rules prior to my leaving.

As we all know, anything is possible with that "crew" we have (pardon me, of the two of us, it's now only YOU who have) in Sacramento.

That said, I haven't seen anything in "The Firing Line" about any new "anti gun" legislation being passed. I did maintain my membership in the CRPA. Even if I'm gone now, I can still help a little bit.

The only local regulation type problem I can think of just now is the requirement for an "approved by the State" safe for long arms, or a proveably new (within the last 30 days) gun lock for each newly purchased long arm. Oh yeah, the gun lock has to be one "approved" by the State, not just any old gun lock.

Good luck battling your new addiction to old long arms!

I'm a life member of CRPA also, so I get their newsletter every month. OK, give DOJ a call if you don't believe me. The fact that dealers in other states will ship to you, and UPS delivers them, and even if a sheriff doesn't know about it, that doesn't mean it's legal. I'm not trying to stop you, but we all know of dealers, law enforcement, and even ATF agents that mis-understand the law. And ignorance of the law is not a viable defense if you get caught by DOJ. The only way to be sure is to call them and make sure it's legal. I'll understand if you don't want to. Check the links below:
http://www.centuryarms.com/Century/pages/policies.htm
http://64.82.96.51/cal-ffl.htm
http://calguns.net/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f.../r/21910975521
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/f...uirements.html

Please note these 'opinions' are from people like us and have no bearing in law. I would ask DOJ to be sure.