RotoMetals2Ballisti-CastGraf & SonsTitan Reloading
StainLess Steel MediaLee PrecisionInline Fabrication
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: 8x57 MM Mauser load data

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    79

    8x57 MM Mauser load data

    Have done a search, been to the hogdon site and checked all of my loading manuals!
    I have a NOE fat 323471 mold that drops at .3265 and 224 grains.
    Want to load it using IMR 3031 but can find zero load data.
    I'm kinda old school and IMR3031 was always the go to powder but now the manuals do not even list it most of the time.

    Does anyone have any data for a 225 , 230 grain boolit using 3031?



    gunnut14

  2. #2
    Boolit Master frnkeore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central point, OR
    Posts
    1,018
    From my 1958 Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets, just says LR primer and no barrel length given.

    323471 210 gr GC

    31.0 gr 3031, 1980 fps

    41.0 gr 3031, 2395 fps

    My own load with the original 323471 is,

    46.0 gr WC 852 / 2157 fps / 23 5/8 K98 barrel. 2" @ 100 yds


    Frank

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    492
    Nothing for boolits that heavy. I do load 174 grainers (paper-patched) over 32.5 grains of Hodgdon Benchmark plus dacron filler, for a bit more than 2100 fps from my 18" 8 x 57 barrel. Benchmark and IMR-3031 are virtual clones as regards burn rate- they are RIGHT beside each other on every BR chart I've ever seen. My load certainly is safe as is - in fact, it cannot be a very high pressure load at all (I estimate 30,000 - 35,000 psi or something like that). So, a similar charge weight of 3031 SHOULD be OK with 230 grainers in a full-length barrel.

    Of course, no guarantees. I'd suggest starting at 30 grains or so.....and work up.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    13,961
    My 325471 solids run right at 220 gr fully dressed. Suggest starting at 28 gr 4895 with a 1/2 gr dacron filler and work up in 1/2 gr increments to 34 gr 4895. I found best accuracy in the 30 - 32 gr range at 1850 - 1900 fps.

    Larry Gibson

  5. #5
    Boolit Master HARRYMPOPE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Walla Walla Co. Wa.
    Posts
    1,758
    I have shot the 210g 323471 and 323378(245g) with 30.0 of 3031.Accuracy is decent in my old Turk Mausers but not as good as a lower velocity load of 16g-17g of 2400.

    George

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    492
    I think that it is important to point out, though I forgot to do so before, that 3031 is probably a bit too fast a powder for the 8 x 57 - in FULL-LENGTH barrels. In a military standard Mauser barrel, 23.2" - 23.6", let alone the long 29" barrels of the earlier models, it is probably not possible to achieve really useful velocity and best accuracy - without exceeding max. safe pressures. I get away with a powder this fast (H-Benchmark, virtually the same speed as 3031) in my Yugo M48 only because of the shorty 18" carbine barrel it wears (a cut-down and carefully lapped military barrel). I get excellent results - but I very much doubt results would be acceptable with the original 23.2" barrel length.

    This probably explains the dearth of load info using 3031, in the 8x 57.

    You'd probably be better off with a powder in the range of 4895 or perhaps *** 4061. I used to use 4061 mostly, when I had a full-length barrel, with great results.

    *** Whooops ! I meant 4064, not "4061". Sorry, everybody. Thanks for the correction, gentlemen.
    Last edited by bcp477; 09-11-2011 at 10:01 PM.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Ben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, AL
    Posts
    7,436
    bcp477

    You'd probably be better off with a powder in the range of 4895 or perhaps 4061. I used to use 4061 mostly, when I had a full-length barrel, with great results.

    4061 ? Is this an error, Are you using 4064 ?

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    79
    An update,
    Was doing some reloading yesterday and had the garage door open. A neighbor came over to say thanks for watching his house for him. (had to go east in a hurry due to death of Father).
    Brought me a book (sorta), It is the first Lee reloading manual ,cost $0.98 new.
    It is a great little book!
    I guess it fits me as all of the powders used are some that I recoginize.
    All of the data is for J-word bullets but you can do the 10% +10% reductions and get a fair figure for loading cast for most calibers.
    For the 8x57 round 125 to150 grain it calls for 44 grains 3031 at velocity of 2815-2750
    For a 225 grain bullet 43 grains of 3031 at velocity 2301.
    Using the -10% and -10% rule I get 34.8 grains for a starting load for a 225 grain cast boolit
    Will drop it an additional 10% just to make sure to start

    Not too bad for something 50 years old.


    gunnut14

  9. #9
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Moving back east now
    Posts
    7,182
    Please be sure to slug your bore. There were at least two different flavors of 8mm Mauser. I think that one was the "J" & one was the "S" variant. The earlier one had a barrel diameter that was several thousandths smaller than the one that became the (more common) later standard. Older (small diameter) bores do still show up from time to time. It's something that you want to know about before you pull the trigger.
    “an armed society is a polite society.”
    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset."
    Publius Tacitus

  10. #10
    Boolit Master JIMinPHX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Moving back east now
    Posts
    7,182
    Hornady #5 lists a 220 grain jacketed bullet in the 8 x 57 "S" Mauser cartridge.
    3031 at 33.4-41.3 grains for 1800-2200fps

    They say that the original (J) bullet diameter was .318" & the later (S) bullet was .323".
    “an armed society is a polite society.”
    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset."
    Publius Tacitus

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    adrians's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    just out there
    Posts
    1,077
    Quote Originally Posted by JIMinPHX View Post
    Please be sure to slug your bore. There were at least two different flavors of 8mm Mauser. I think that one was the "J" & one was the "S" variant. The earlier one had a barrel diameter that was several thousandths smaller than the one that became the (more common) later standard. Older (small diameter) bores do still show up from time to time. It's something that you want to know about before you pull the trigger.
    j bore = .316 to .318 ( gew 1888 ect,,, commision rifles).

    js bore =.323 + ( standard mod 98/ k98/ any 8x57 mauser rifles).

    heed JIMinPHX's, sound and sensible advise, slug first .
    adrian.
    i.m just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round..... i really love to watch them roll ,,,, J,W,L.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    adrians's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    just out there
    Posts
    1,077
    gunnut14 ,what are you shooting these boolits out of?
    just curious and nosy
    i.m just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round..... i really love to watch them roll ,,,, J,W,L.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master frnkeore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central point, OR
    Posts
    1,018
    Before anyone quotes groove diameters on GEW 88, they need to have actually measured the groove on at least one GEW 88. The bullets were .318 but the bullet size has nothing to do with the groove size on a GEW88. Grooves usually run close to .3205 on the GEW 88's. There are Cech barrels at .316 and a few late barrels at .323 but, most are at the above quoted figure of about .3205.

    The problem won't be in safety but, in shootability. Lead needs to be atleast groove size or larger to shoot well.

    That said, you always need to slug a GEW88 and the early GEW98's.

    Frank

  14. #14
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    79
    I have a K98 Mauser that I bought 55 years ago and 2 yugo 24/47 K98 Mausers.
    None of the are the 8x57J.
    All are the 8x57JS which is supposed to be a 323 bore.
    Mine measure .324-.325 so that is why I am using the fat 323471 which drops at .326.
    I also have a couple of the 88 commission rifles with the original .218 bore and I shoot paper patch to .318-9 with them using IMR 4895


    gunnut14

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Alturas, California...where the west still lives!
    Posts
    6,295
    I don't know the shape of the boolit you're using, but at 200 grains it ought to perform well.

    I had an old Lyman 8mm mold with the worst factory machining on the nose you could imagine. Since it wasn't doing anything anyway, I put it in the 4 jaw chuck of my lathe and bored it out, making a plain base mold. It came out at 214 grains, was sized at .324 and loaded over 10 grains of Trail Boss, which is considered a moderate load these days.

    The results were eye opening. At 50 yds. I could just about cover five holes with a nickle, using the Yugo military sights. Recoil was quite comfortable. I upped the charge to 11.7 grains and the accuracy stayed about the same with the recoil becoming more "like a real gun". One shot at a piece of heavy (1/8" thick) culvert easily penetrated both walls. Randomly shooting at rocks in the desert produced good results at ranges estimated right at 200 yds. Not a load to sneeze at!

    My point is that some of the newer powders are useful and fun to play with. A jug of Trail Boss will run you about $12-14 and bulks up nicely, preventing overloads. Try it!

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    adrians's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    just out there
    Posts
    1,077
    Quote Originally Posted by frnkeore View Post
    Before anyone quotes groove diameters on GEW 88, they need to have actually measured the groove on at least one GEW 88. The bullets were .318 but the bullet size has nothing to do with the groove size on a GEW88. Grooves usually run close to .3205 on the GEW 88's. There are Cech barrels at .316 and a few late barrels at .323 but, most are at the above quoted figure of about .3205.

    The problem won't be in safety but, in shootability. Lead needs to be atleast groove size or larger to shoot well.

    That said, you always need to slug a GEW88 and the early GEW98's.

    Frank
    +A,,, Frank, i was just trying to explain the variations one can expect when it comes to gew88's and gew 98's.(every bore will register a diff reading )as i hope you can see in my pic my two 88's are right on the .320 mark using cerrasafe chamber casts, ofcourse these measurements may be "off " a little due to the time after cast was taken and the time i measured them (some were more than the reccomended 1 hr,,,duh), but they are in the ball park as you pointed out (.320---.320.5).
    oh and by the way i shoot pretty decent groups using the ideal #319247 &319295 ,both p/b and weighing in at circa 165 grns. (.321dia)
    i have been known to shoot the j word boolits but only cos i got a bunch very cheap (.319 norma , 228grns).
    bottom line here is do a chamber and muzzle cast and/or slug.
    regards ..adrians
    Last edited by adrians; 10-21-2011 at 12:18 PM.
    i.m just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round..... i really love to watch them roll ,,,, J,W,L.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master frnkeore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central point, OR
    Posts
    1,018
    Adrians,
    Thank you for sharing your info. I love seeing the different throats and groove diameters. Three of my single shot target rifles are in 32/40 so, I'm well supplied with bullets for my three GEW 88's.

    My grooves are as follows, 1891 Danzig, .320, 1891 Lowel, .3205 and my 1894 Spandau is .3208. I just got the Danzig two weeks ago and the barrel is like new on it.

    Frank

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    492
    The Mauser bore/ groove size issue can easily become confusing to newbees, especially if they are not up on the various models produced by various nations.

    So, by way of clarifying and simplifying things:

    NOTE: The dimensions given below are NOMINAL. There are certainly production variations - but these dimensions are the specified ones. (So, no need to answer back with....."yes, but, my XXXYYYZZZ has a groove size actually .002" larger/ smaller than that".......THAT "hair splitting" is where the confusion is introduced !)

    NOTE: Slugging one's own barrel to get an exact dimension, especially for the purpose of getting cast or PP boolit sizes right, is ALWAYS recommended. This is NOT intended to obviate that step.

    NOTE: I am, OF COURSE, ONLY referring to rifles chambered for the 7.92 x 57 (commonly called the 8 x 57, or "8mm Mauser" cartridge)......NO OTHERS.

    NOTE: I make NO assertions regarding the production of similar rifles by other nations, such as Turkey - ONLY German and Yugoslav. I haven't enough knowledge or information to go on for that.



    1) ALL Yugo M48 series and M1924, 24/47, etc rifles were produced to the 8 x 57 JS standard......... i.e., 0.312" bore dia./ 0.323" groove dia. ALL OF THEM.


    2) ALL WW2 era Kar98k's and Czech Vz24's, as well as any other production sourced for the German war effort were produced to the JS standard (0.312"/ 0.323"). THEY DID NOT USE THE "J" STANDARD FOR MILITARY ISSUE DURING THAT ERA. So, it is NOT the case that a WW2 rifle will have the "J" standard barrel, UNLESS rebarreled by someone OTHER than official sources, such as a post-war rebarrel by someone in this country after importation, for example. Realistically, the chances of coming across a "J" barreled Kar98k, for example, are VERY remote.....VERY.

    3) ALL German MILITARY Mauser 98 rifles, of whatever type, produced AFTER 1905, were produced to the JS standard (0.312"/ 0.323"). "JS" was the ONLY OFFICIAL standard, after 1905. HOWEVER, there WERE some rifles in use during WW1, that had the older "J" barrels (0.312" bore/ 0.318" groove). These were older production rifles from state guard and police units, pressed into service to make up for production shortages. There MAY have been a few "J" barrels used by German military armourers, for refurb of issue rifles, but this was NOT standard or accepted practice, but rather only a field expedient. Therefore, the WW1 era rifles, such as the GEW98 for example, are the most suspect - and certainly SHOULD be slugged in all cases.


    The issue of the "J" barreled rifles "lurking about", disguised as "regular" M48's or Kar98k's, etc.....has been vastly exaggerated. It certainly IS wise to err on the side of caution, most especially if one has an 8 x 57 military Mauser produced during or before the WW1 ERA. However, WW2 and after military rifles virtually never turn up with "J" barrels - it just doesn't happen - so this is not an area of concern to the prospective Mauser owner or Mauser "newbee".
    Last edited by bcp477; 09-29-2011 at 09:29 PM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master frnkeore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central point, OR
    Posts
    1,018
    BCP,
    My post was to try to clearify the confusion regarding the J bore. The J groove was NEVER .318. As I remember, the original J barrel was 7.9 bore x 8.15 groove (.311 x .32088) + - they're tolerance. I don't have any GEW 98's and because of that, I haven't researched them but, I would be totally supprised to find that the pre 1905 GEW 98's had a groove diameter smaller than .320 since the GEW 88's never did (I, like you, refer to German built rifles). I believe the S bore and groove were 7.92 x 8.2 (.3118 x .3228) + -.

    Frank
    Last edited by frnkeore; 09-30-2011 at 01:29 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check