reform brass to 7.65 x 53

[markshere2]

I just picked up a GEW 88 commission project. The Turks reworked it in 1939. Anybody ever fool with one of them? Twas advertised as an 8X57, but it ain't. My gunsmith found a source that calls it a 7.6X53 Argentine, and that seems about right since an 8mm bullet won't go into the muzzle all the way and a .308 boolit is quite loose.

I saw a few articles describing reforming 30-06 brass to 7.65 X 53. I have never done this reforming one caliber to another task before. I picked up an RCBS die set off'n Fleabay that should be here soon.

Anybody have experience they would care to share? Any sooper seekrit re=forming dies available or did I buy the right thing?

I plan to take it in gradual steps, but is that a bad plan?

I am moderately experienced at reloading pistol & rifle rounds in 30-30, 7.62X39 7.62X54, 30-06 .357 9mm .380 .40 .45v etc.


Regards

Mark

[GrizzLeeBear]

NO! The Gew 88 is most likely the earlier 8x57 J bore. Its the same case dimension with a .318 dia. bore. The later 8x57 JS bore has the .323 dia. The 7.65x53 is indeed found in the Argentine mausers (and some others) but is a different case. Firing 7.65x53 in a 8mm J bore could harm the rifle and possible you due to excessive headspace issues.
I would HIGHLY recommend checking the headspace with a set of 8x57 GO NO-GO gauges before firing the rifle, if for no other reason than the age of the rifle.
A gunsmith suggesting that a Gew 88 is chambered in 7.65x53 is suspect to begin with (at least as far as Mauser go).

[oscarflytyer]

NO! The Gew 88 is most likely the earlier 8x57 J bore. Its the same case dimension with a .318 dia. bore. The later 8x57 JS bore has the .323 dia. The 7.65x53 is indeed found in the Argentine mausers (and some others) but is a different case. Firing 7.65x53 in a 8mm J bore could harm the rifle and possible you due to excessive headspace issues.
I would HIGHLY recommend checking the headspace with a set of 8x57 GO NO-GO gauges before firing the rifle, if for no other reason than the age of the rifle.
A gunsmith suggesting that a Gew 88 is chambered in 7.65x53 is suspect to begin with (at least as far as Mauser go).

I'm with Grizz... COULD have been redone to an Argie, but... I would def do a chamber cast before I loaded/shot it, unless I was sure...

[Kraschenbirn]

Mark...

If you don't have access to headspace gauges, I suggest that you just try chambering a loaded 8x57 round. If you can close the bolt, it definitely ain't a 7.65x53. The 1939 "rework" was, most likely, a rebarrel from 8x57J to 8x57JS to allow safe use of the same ammo as their current (at that time) production small-ring '98s.

Bill

[leadman]

The early Turk rifles were 7.65 X 54(3) Arg., but were Mausers. Started with the 1889 IIRC. They looked somewhat like the commission rifle. I think the Turks bought 3 models of Mausers that were chambered in the 7.65X54(3) before going to the 8X57.

As recommended have your gunsmith do a chamber cast.

I reform my brass for my 2 1891 Arg Mausers from 270 mostly. Any 30-06, 270, 280, etc will work.

It can be done with a die set a little at a time, may have to lube while forming once in between. Depending on the room available in the neck area of your sizing die you may have to trim the neck while forming the case.
I use an RCBS trim die. Lube, run the ram down, cut off the excess case with a fine hacksaw, file flat, full length size in sizing die, chamfer the neck, load.

If you can post a picture of the rifle it may help identify it.

I looked it up:The Turks used a model 90 Mauser in 7.65mm. Looked similar to the Belgian Model 89 but without the barrel tube, had a short wood handguard.

The Commission rifle used a Mannlicher type clip, while the 90 and 91 model Mausers had a removable magazine that hung down below the wood and was loaded with a stripper clip or singly. Which does your rifle have?

[gidgaf]

Commission: I have a couple. I'd be disappointed if my 8mm boolit made it all the way into barrel!
Does your have a shroud? Take it off, clean the barrel and receiver, paint in all the little marks, letters, numbers, stamps, etc, and take pictures and notes. Every one means something important.
Slug your barrel. Do it from both ends, and make note of any loose or tight spots. Don't remove any marks from the stock. That front barrel band may have lettering, and it may tell you where this gun came from.
And yes I reform most of my 8mm from Remingtom 3006. Be gentle, be careful, and you'll be good.

[markshere2]

Well that's a lot of input. Thanks gents!

I believe I was suffering from limpwrist -itis or some other such malady.

After taking a piece of empty 8x57 brass and running it through my FL Rcbs 8x57 dies I was able to chamber the empty and close the bolt.

So I grabbed a round of commercial 8x57 and tried to chamber it and it also closed up nicely.

I'm going to slug the bore and see what diameter barrel I have and take if from there.

Prolly try " The Load" first with whatever boolit fits.

Thanks - If I hadn't asked Y'all, I would never have tried again.

Mark

[jonk]

Sounds like a plan. Most of these seem to run about .321", and a standard .323" bullet (lead) shoots just peachy. .323" jacketed are another matter; I wouldn't say it is a no no but it would be a proposition of a slow powder and mild charge to gently swage the bullet (personally I size them first if using jacketed).

But to your original question- while not an issue given your new discovery of caliber, all of the following can be made from 30-06 or similar brass:
.308
7.65X54 Argentine/Belgian
7mm Mauser
7.7 Jap
8mm Mauser

It is easiest to use a form die but good results can be had if you cut off the brass with a dremel or similar, lube well, size in stages, and then final trim and chamfer. In some cases with tight chambers or when using GI brass, you may have to neck ream any of the above to get good function. Overall a lot of work but since I usually find 06 brass at the range for free, it's a good cheap option.

7.5 French, 7.5 Swiss, and 6.5 Swedish are marginal; the head is a little undersized if made from 06 brass but with cast loads shouldn't be too big a problem, just don't expect perfect brass life.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Definately slug the bore and for good measure do a chamber cast to be sure.Robert

[Ed in North Texas]

For the 7.65x53mm Argentine/Belgian (and Turk) shooters, if you are thinking of reforming brass, my question is "Why bother?" Admittedly when I got my first 1891 Argentine in the 60s, there was only milsurp Argentine ammo and (maybe just a bit later) Norma (read expensive) ammo available. Norma cases were the only ready made cases then. So we formed brass from the ever available (and cheap in those days) -06 brass. 8x57mm and 7x57mm were hard to come by too (though 7x57mm was loaded commercially on occasion) and got the same treatment. I wound up with lots of USGI headstamped cases in different calibers. Not a good idea.

So in the early 90's I spent time checking the reloading shelves every time I came upon an out of the way gunshop, finally coming up with 7 boxes of once fired Norma cases (already had the other two calibers in proper cases). Since I would have stopped to look anyway, I didn't think I had any expenditure in the search. And the gunshops were glad to get rid of an item which didn't move, to one of the weirdos who shot that caliber, at a very favorable (to me) price - IIRC around $3.50 per box of 20.

With Prvi Partizan cases available today (and from my favorite supplier, and Boolits supporter Graf's), unless you are doing it just for the challenge - and for only one caliber - there really isn't any reason to form 7.65x53mm cases.

Maybe with age I've gotten lazy. I know I've gotten forgetful, so multiple headstamps in different calibers is a bad, bad idea. No matter how carefully I mark boxes, segregate cases and even color code the heads, Murphy is alive and well.

Just my $0.02 USD. Which is not worth what it used to be worth - they even make the pennies cheaper now.

[leadman]

I reform brass to the 7.65 Arg. out of 270 Win mostly. I do not have a 270. Also 100 cases from Graf are on sale now for $42.00.
I pick up the brass at the range for free and it only takes me a minute or less to make a case with the trim die.
I'm retired so my time is money saved to me.
The shape of the shoulder on Arg. case is so different from other cartridges it is easy to tell from 308 size and 30-06 size cases. Even 7 X57 or 8 x 57 are easy to tell from the Arg.

[Ed in North Texas]

I reform brass to the 7.65 Arg. out of 270 Win mostly. I do not have a 270. Also 100 cases from Graf are on sale now for $42.00.
I pick up the brass at the range for free and it only takes me a minute or less to make a case with the trim die.
I'm retired so my time is money saved to me.
The shape of the shoulder on Arg. case is so different from other cartridges it is easy to tell from 308 size and 30-06 size cases. Even 7 X57 or 8 x 57 are easy to tell from the Arg.

I'm almost through my second decade of being retired, and I still don't have enough time to do everything I want. And I find I'm more forgetful of little things now. I do use .270 brass for one cartridge - my 7mm "Spanish" Rolling Block, so I don't mix that brass with regular 7x57mm. I also don't own a .270 Win, so no problem with confusion. The longer 7mm chamber of the RB means brass that needs to be dedicated to that rifle, and I do own other 7x57mm rifles. It is unique, but not unique enough.

As long as you are only forming one caliber out of that .270 brass, there should be no problems. The 100+ cases I already have should last me the rest of my life. But if I need more, I'll buy them if they are still available.