WidenersLoad DataMidSouth Shooters SupplyRepackbox
Lee PrecisionRotoMetals2Reloading EverythingTitan Reloading
Inline Fabrication
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Black powder lube?

  1. #1
    Banner Sponsor

    lar45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    2,823

    Black powder lube?

    Hi all, I've been makeing and selling a pile of 50/50 alox lube on ebay.

    I've had several requests for a black powder lube.
    Does anyone have a good recipie they would share. Does there need to be a difference for muzzle loaders and black powder cartridge?

    I believe that someone suggested 50-50 Bee's wax and deer tallow, but I don't know where I'd get 100lb of deer tallow.

    TIA
    Glenn.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    La Grange,Texas
    Posts
    2,127
    Scroll down the left hand side of the page to Bullet Lubes

    http://groups.msn.com/BPCR

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Bloomfield, Nebraska
    Posts
    6,073
    Boy
    That's like asking Steve Garvey to share with you...

    Every Black powder shooter I know right now either has his own secret formula or is shooting SPG. For modern black powder you have to not only lubricate the bullets passsage down the bore, but you have to do it with something that will kee the powder fouling soft. Most petroleum products combine with black powder to make super glue or a reasonalble facimile. My grandfathers lube was Beeswax and sperm oil and I use bear oil instead. You need to do some experimenting with this mixture as tempreture makes a difference in shooting black. I have a winter lube and a summer lube as I shoot from 20 below to 106 in the shade and one lube won't do. If you do not have bear oil try Jojoba. As a starting point try 1/4 oil to 3/4 wax and see how hard it gets. You want it to be soft, but not runny at about 85 degrees. If you are shooting at over 90 you need harder and in the winter I use a mix that is just firm at 45 degrees and can still be rubbed into a patch at 20 degrees. Old Zip from Dixie use to be lanolin and bees wax and worked good for muzzleloaders, but I haven't used any for ctg guns in years. The prime test for a black powder lube is to lube up some 45 bullets and start shooting. If you can hold your group 15 to 20 shots with no loss of accuracy in a 45-70 you are doing good. With a 45 Colt I shoot for no accuracy loss and 35-50 shot without binding the gun up in average weather. At 106 degrees and 0 humidity with Goex that same lube and load will only give you 27 shots max and the cylinder won't turn. If you are selling the lube commercially the first thing you need is to have someone win the Nationals with your lube. Then even if it is made from vodka and dried skunk butts you will sell a ton. I swaer most BPCR shooters have more herd instinct than buffalo and if Ron Long won a match with his pants unzipped no one would HAVE a zipper the next year.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Bullshop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    6,172
    Quote Originally Posted by lar45
    Hi all, I've been makeing and selling a pile of 50/50 alox lube on ebay.

    I've had several requests for a black powder lube.
    Does anyone have a good recipie they would share. Does there need to be a difference for muzzle loaders and black powder cartridge?

    I believe that someone suggested 50-50 Bee's wax and deer tallow, but I don't know where I'd get 100lb of deer tallow.

    TIA
    Glenn.
    I have about 20lbs buffalo tallow rendered up. I no longer use animal fats in my BP lube as I found for long term it speeds oxidation of lead and corrodes brass. Its OK for short term, a year or so. I have used all the deer tallows WT, Mulie, Caribou, moose but none are as good as buffalo the real McCoy. At 40 to 50 bellow 0 it still feels slick when the others feel like sand stone. I have about 50lbs moose tallow but use it for flux for outside smelting so dont realy want to get rid of it. Let me know if you are interested in the buffalo.
    BIC/BS

  5. #5
    Boolit Master at Heavens Range

    Junior1942's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Tullos, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,886

    Black powder lube

    A very large number of people make and use my "Junior Lube" for muzzleloader and BPCR. The easy recipe is here:

    http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/lube.htm

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    489
    Hey, KCSO, I'm a BPCR shooter--and I _love_ those last 3 sentences in your post! Pretty much true for all the competitive shooting sports, though, isn't it?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    TCLouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Middle TN
    Posts
    4,404

    You won't believe this but . . .

    Do All Tool Saver makes ONE heck of a Black Powder lube.
    Do Not know what is in it, but it must NOT be peroleum based since it works in BP guns. It comes in a tube about like a tube of caulking for about 4-6 bucks last time I bought some( I forget the actual price). It takes a while to use up a tube.

    Funny thing is it looks a LOT like FWFL.

    I tried it on smokeless loads and it would not translate directly (accuracy) with loads of FWFL.

    Never did fully test it on smokeless shooting, the FWFL came in and it works so well on the loads I have tried, I hate to change anything!
    Last edited by TCLouis; 06-12-2005 at 05:23 PM. Reason: lousy typing
    Amendments
    The Second there to protect the First!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    La Grange,Texas
    Posts
    2,127
    Quote Originally Posted by KCSO
    Boy
    That's like asking Steve Garvey to share with you...

    If you are selling the lube commercially the first thing you need is to have someone win the Nationals with your lube. Then even if it is made from vodka and dried skunk butts you will sell a ton. I swaer most BPCR shooters have more herd instinct than buffalo and if Ron Long won a match with his pants unzipped no one would HAVE a zipper the next year.
    Hmmm


    Tincture of skunk butt. Anyone know a good source of dried skunk butt?

  9. #9
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    19,340

    Wills

    I could send you some of my old underwear. Just about the same.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator




    Buckshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    So. California
    Posts
    11,833
    Quote Originally Posted by wills
    Hmmm


    Tincture of skunk butt. Anyone know a good source of dried skunk butt?
    A street on the way to the range fronts an egg ranch. You may usually find from 3 to 6 squashed skunks along this road. I'd be glad to give you directions, which from most of TX are simple in the extreme. Go west on I-10 to Redlands, then take CA30 north about 4 miles, exit on 3rd street and turn right.

    I'm not interested in shipping.

    waksupi, "............. I could send you some of my old underwear. Just about the same."

    Well it might be but everyone has skivvies and it just doesn't carry the same flash and panache' as sun dried skunk butt. Imagine how much more impressive that would be on the list of ingredients.

    ...............Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

    Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner.

    "The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."

    Shrink the State End the Fed Balance the budget Make a profit Leave an inheritance

  11. #11
    Boolit Master wills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    La Grange,Texas
    Posts
    2,127
    That appears to be about 1419 miles. It would take a lot of diesel to get me there and back.

    Are you sure you wouldn’t be interested in a harvesting and drying operation? (Buckshot’s California Sun Dried Skunk Butt- (Be sure to wear your Birkenstocks during the drying process)) We just missed the state championship BPCR Silhouette match last weekend, but Cybershoot comes up Labor Day weekend. We could make up some lube and split the profits.

  12. #12
    Banned

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,705
    Everything I read keeps pushing SPG as being the best. I don't know hardly anyone at my range (BPCR) that uses SPG. My friends and I started with it and gave it up fast. The last 10" of our barrels would be full of hard fouling in any weather. The home made stuff is way better. We use beeswax, lanolin and Lube-Gard. Sometimes some beef fat added.
    I also bought some of the Shavers lube with moly in it. The verticle dispersion was awful so it sits in the drawer too.
    The secret is to soften fouling and keep it soft even if the barrel is hot and NOT make the bore too slippery.
    This would be a major project to find a perfect BP lube and many thousands of dollars and countless hours would be spent.
    For muzzle loading patches, Young Country is the best. You will have a devil of a time figuring out what is in it and making a better product. Another good patch lube is Ballistol mixed with water. Soak the patch material and let the water dry off.
    Deer fat when rendered and left to cool is as hard as beeswax. NOT a good thing to use unless you replace the beeswax with it. Bear fat, pig fat and some other animal fat will give you a soft consistancy that works OK. But not the deer family unless you want to make candles.

  13. #13
    Banner Sponsor

    lar45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    2,823
    I've seen Lube-Gard mentioned a couple of times. Is this the ATF additive?

    I'm thinking Bee's wax, Jojoba oil and maybe some Lanolin if it needs to be sticky. Maybe make hard and soft versions for winter and summer?

    Maybe I should add some Vitamin E and it could double as a hand cream.

  14. #14
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    7,620
    I think (?) that Lube Guard is labeled as a "top engine cleaner," but may be mistaken. FWIW, I too can be counted among those who found SPG less than advertised. The first lube I tried is the old Schuetzen lube, called "Emmert's." It's really easy to make, and pretty cheap to boot, so you could have a "barn sale" with it. All it is, is 50% beeswax, 40% white Crisco (the kind you make biscuits with, not the oil) and 10% generic canola oil from the grocery store. I got some anhydrous lanolin, and I add in about 6% of the total wt. of the std. Emmert's, and I think I like this a lot better. The lanolin, for one thing, makes the lube stick to the bullets better.

    The oldtimers used to like mutton tallow, but the main reason for that is that mutton tallow is extra heavy in lanolin. I figure if they liked it, and it's been working so well for me, those oldtimers must have been onto something.

    Since you appear to be new to shooting The Holy Black, it may be good to let you know that shooting black requires a bullet with a lot more lube carrying capacity than bullets designed for shooting with smokeless. Additionally, the long barrels used in most BPCR's warrant more lube as well. I usually shoot the Saeco #745 bullet, which is noted to be on the borderline for many guns when it comes to the amount of lube it carries.

    I think it was 44man who commented not to make the lube "TOO slick," and I think he's right on there, too. Black NEEDS some "backpressure" to help it get a good burn, and making a lube too slick can reduce the efficiency and consistency of the powder burn, so won't likely contribute to good accuracy.

    One way to make a bullet designed for smokeless to work with black is to lube it with a good BP lube, AND use a grease cookie under the bullet to add more lube. Put a wad both below and above the lube cookie, though.

    It also seems that if you change your lube, you'll have to change your load to compensate for the difference. Shooting black is one of the "funnest" things I've ever done, but forget what you know about loading white powder when you shoot black, and you'll do a lot better a lot quicker. It's a whole 'nother ball game. Mostly, it's about getting the bullet to ride down the barrel with the same resistance as all previous shots (blowtubing helps here, a LOT) and about getting the powder to burn just right. Not enough pressure and you get a poorer burn, more fouling and poorer accuracy. Get the pressure up there to the right level, and you'll start cookin' with grease!

  15. #15
    Banned

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,705
    Lar, Lube-Gard is automatic transmission valve and assembly lube. It is 100% seed oil based. You get it at NAPA auto parts. Jojoba oil is supposed to be a replacement for sperm whale oil but does not work the same. We have tried it without as good results as Lube-Gard.
    Emmerts lube works good too and there are as many variations as there are guys shooting.
    BPCR is the toughest shooting sport to get good at, nothing else is so frustrating or as much fun. Great bunch of people in the game too.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master shooter575's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor Mi.
    Posts
    592
    My BP lube is lot like 44mans. I use about 50% beeswax, 25% lanolin and 25% neetsfoot oil. This is just a bit harder than SPG and takes the heat better.Does not go rancid, does not grow stuff on the brass.I have shot 75 rounds of 44-40 with out any hard fouling in my Henry.Works well in my luber sizer with minnes too.I use a bit more oil in my winter mix of for patch rb.
    If shooting,fixing,making and thunking were easy.Everyone would be doing it.

    There are four types of homicide: felonious, accidental,
    justifiable, and praiseworthy.
    - Ambrose Bierce


    Jim

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    489
    Not to discount anybody's homemade lube, but I use "Black Magic" by Sidra Bagwell from Buffalo Arms-works well for me in hot/humid, hot/dry and Texas cold (not very!) conditions. I shot a match today (badly), about 60 rounds total; found 2 little slivers of lead, the size of a pencil mark on paper, and after match cleanup was 4 water patches and 2 dry. If you don't want to play junior chemist, give Black Magic a try. I'm in no way affiliated, of course.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check