Ballisti-Cast Equipment Modifications

[Beau Cassidy]

You need to work with the group buys here. I can imagine the group buys here have substantially cut into everybody's business.

[ChuckS1]

Just my opinion, but have you thought about copyrighting and/or patenting the H&G bullet mold designs? You're losing a lot of business when the group buys are basically making unauthorized reproductions of a design that you own.

[felix]

I would not even think about copywriting a mold design. It is just too simple to change the design and cause all kinds of litigation problems, costing the original vendor multiple bucks to defend. Besides, I don't know of any design we took from any vendor and kept that design for commercial "advertised" sale. Sales were to us board members, almost exclusively, and not in the numbers commercial interests would be interested. Wasn't it a Keith copy which sold over a 100 copies? What other designs have I missed that were over subscribed? ... felix

Perhaps B-C would be interested in an exceptionally accurate group-ordered design proven to be so by many purchasers with different kinds of guns. The drawing itself belongs to the one who drew the design, and it has been customary for the vendor to donate free of all charges a finished mold to the said person for payment of keeping up with the hassle from the board at large on the particulars. ... felix

[ballisti-cast]

Group buys are something we could price very competitively as we can set up the CNC mill and let it make 15 or 20 identical molds (or at least the same design but varied for individual needs) over night. We also can very accurately calculate the weight and diameter of a cast boolit based off of a design if any help is needed in that area.

[dromia]

Sounds good, just need agreement on a mould design and a honcho.

[Wayne Smith]

Group buys are something we could price very competitively as we can set up the CNC mill and let it make 15 or 20 identical molds (or at least the same design but varied for individual needs) over night. We also can very accurately calculate the weight and diameter of a cast boolit based off of a design if any help is needed in that area.

Since you have that capability you might want to contact Bruce Brandt, BABore here, since he closed his business. Buying his list of molds would be a great start, getting them available again. Many of them started as group buys.

[Catshooter]

Sounds good, just need agreement on a mould design and a honcho.

And a price . . .


Cat

[ballisti-cast]

We could give a price in the $90 range for 10 molds and additional price breaks for larger quantities.

[dromia]

Just need agreement on a mould design and a honcho now.

[taminsong]

BC,

I'm lived in the Philippines, so ordering a mold from Lyman plus the shipping charges is so great for me but I can't do anything about that, I have to swallow the added cost!

Now, when I found out that the mold 358429 that I ordered from Lyman is way undersized? What do you think I will feel? I cannot return the mold and pay the tremendous shipping charges the Post Office asked, and Lyman doesn't gave a positive response to my query! If I return it, then I have to pay another customs duties when the mold arrives!

Since that, I never looked at Lyman's website!

My idea is, if you can provide a quality warranty to your products worldwide, I'd be happy, everybody will be happy! As the people above says, GROUPBUYS is the way to go! And I've been poor many times just trying to get into Noe and Mihec GB!

[turbo1889]

I absolutely and completely agree with what others have been telling you about fit being king and thus molds that drop to diameter and drop large enough being your priority.

It is kind of a “Back to Basics” thing. You will find that most on this board are highly pleased with the various custom mold makers out there that allow them to order a specific diameter of boolit to fit their guns and when the mold comes it drops to that diameter or slightly over. Having the mold drop at +0.001 over stated size with WW alloy is a good target to try to hit.

That being said, I think I should make you aware of a slight drawback to using an undersize cherry run in a circle rotation orbit on a CNC milling machine to cut the mold cavities and provide a range of diameters in the same design for you customers that no one so far has mentioned in this thread although you may be independently aware of it.

Specifically, that cutting in this way doesn’t just change the major outside diameter of the mold cavity produced but also changes the gas check shank and bore riding diameter of the boolit cavity produced as well.

An excellent example of this is the Lyman 31#299 design which has been run in many group buys on this forum in three different sizes namely: 311299, 314299, and 316299. The boolit in question is a long, heavy, bore riding, gas check design for 30 caliber rifles such as 308, 30-06, 300-Mag, 303-Brit, 7.62x54R, etc., etc., and etc. . .



Now, as originally dimensioned in the 311299 size the primary diameter of the boolit is 0.311” or just slightly larger (for sake of having a solid numbers for this discussion lets say tolerances are -0.000” / +0.002”) and the diameter of the long bore riding nose is 0.299” (-0.000” / +0.002”) diameter to snugly fit a 30-cal. minor bore diameter and the gas check shank is 0.283” (-0.000” / +0.002”) diameter to be a nice snap tight fit in a standard 30-cal. gas check which has an inside diameter of about 0.284” or so before it is crimped on.

What happens to the gas check shank diameter and the bore riding nose diameter if an undersize cherry cutter with those exact same dimensional specifications is used to cut the larger 314299 and 316299 size molds ??? The diameter of the bore riding nose and gas check expand right along with the main diameter of the mold cavity.

Now the bore riding nose is only slightly problematic since guns with oversize major groove diameters in their barrels are also usually loose in their minor bore diameter as well or since these guns are often older military rifles (303-Brit, 7.62x54R, etc . . .) have deep throats and will accept the larger diameter nose section without trouble. Unfortunately, this isn’t all of them and there are some guns that do need an extra fat boolit diameter to fill their deep groove rifling in order to shoot with accuracy and minimal leading that have a minor bore diameter that really is a tight 0.300” diameter.

The gas check shank diameter changes is the bigger issue. Customers don’t like boolits with undersize gas check shanks that the gas check falls off of and they don’t like boolits with oversize gas check shanks that they can’t get the gas check onto. Both I and JIMinPHX posted our comments on this exact topic just yesterday on another thread and I just reposted on it again. Link here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=126324

As you can tell from my comments on that thread when dealing with “fat 30-cal” molds I prefer a tapered gas check that the end of just barely fits into the gas check and then as the gas check is seated on sizing press it actually expands the diameter of the gas check like a wedge since I hate it when I have a fat boolit to fit my bore that has a gas check on its base that isn’t quite as fat as the boolit and thus doesn’t do a whole lot of good in my mind so I tend to error on the side of having a bigger shank diameter that might make getting the gas check onto the shank a pain rather then going the other direction.

Making the gas check shank diameter to be correct for the largest diameter that is intended to be cut with that particular cherry and doing a second cut with a reamer to bring the gas check shanks up to full diameter for the smaller sizes as JIMinPHX suggests is an excellent solution provided you are willing to do the extra step involved.

Theoretically, one could set up for a three tool cut on every cavity with one cutting tool to cut the main body and crimp and lube grooves of the boolit cavity, a second cutter to cut the nose forward of the front driving band, and a third cutter (simple reamer) to form the gas check shank allowing all three diameters to be controlled independently. Going even further if the lube grooves on the body cherry were flat bottomed, deep enough, and wide enough you could make that cherry with a whole length of evenly spaced driving bands and lube grooves and make a whole slew of different body lengths in both plain base and gas check boolits designs from that one cherry by short cutting with the cherry at either the bottom of any of the driving bands to form a plain base boolit or short cutting in any of the lube grooves and then reaming out the lube groove to form a gas check shank. Then you could make the nose cherry nice and short just to form the nose profile and then plunge cut deeper to make longer bore riding noses with the same nose profile. Long story short, a whole bunch of different boolit configurations from the same three cutting tools using CNC to control it all the critical diameters and make different lengths (and thus weights) of boolits with different length bodies and noses but all having the same nose tip shape and same driving bands and crimp groove spacing.



Well, that is my $0.02, take it for what it is worth.

[frank505]

Welcome and thank you for rescueing Ballisti Cast from the idiot. Please return the Elmer Keith molds to the original designs, not what is on the list today. Never make an aluminum mold either. The last molds I bought from BC was when Boyd Nelson was there. At least he knew something.
I hope I can be a satisfied customer again soon.

[jameslovesjammie]

We could give a price in the $90 range for 10 molds and additional price breaks for larger quantities.

Could you update a list of prices? Curious of the cost of a 1, 2, 4 cavity moulds.

I am interested in a H&G 331 in a flat base at .359 if the price was right. (photo from our own TexasFlyBoy's wonderful collection) Alot of other guys doing group buys have a hard time doing a round nose design. This may be a niche for you.

[tommygirlMT]

Hey !!! --- Ballisti-Cast-y --- since we be on the subject of modifications to your machines to make them better

Not a modification for all --- but a modification that would fill my needs --- how much extra "meat" is around the sizing die socket on the Mark-VI sizer ???? --- also throwing the question to MDF99 as well since he has one (great idea by the way on micrometer). Is the base of the sizer iron --- steel - aluminum

Reason I ask --- I have boolit lubing and sizing needs that are above and beyond what any conventional lube size die can handle --- Star Lyman/RCBS or Saco --- diameters up to 8-bore size (0.835) and some really long boolits that a normal length sizing die cant lube all the grooves (mainly 600 nitro boolits)

Is there enough extra "meat" in the base block of the Mark-VI sizer to bore it out to take a 1" outer diameter sizing die? --- How thick is the base block and thus how long could such an oversize die be to get lube in all the grooves of long boolits?

Basically Im getin real sick of pan lubing and then using an oversize Lee type sizing die and would like to be able to lube size the big ones --- so I am thinking big oversize sizing die that is like 1" outer diameter and 2" long or so --- I already looked at the Magma Star sizer and it don't have enough extra "meat" around the sizer die socket to do this with and its linkage is too flimbsy to handle big oversize boolit sizing --- your Mark-VI looks a lot stronger and looks like it has more meat around the sizer die socket so it could be canidate for me buying and then having it modified to take a big oversize sizing die

Also --- your web site no say --- it use standard 1x4 lube sticks or commercial size 2x6 lube sticks ?????????

[tonyjones]

ballisti-cast,

Have you considered offering a PID controller for your melting machines?

Thanks and regards,

Tony

[williamwaco]

I have no need for your machines but I absolutely love your four cavity molds.

As to comments about lower your prices.

I Love your molds because they ARE expensive and HIGH Quality.
Lower the prices? NOT!

No price level can make up for poor quality.
Good customer service cannot make up for poor quality control.

When I want an inexpensive low quality mold, I have several brands to choose from.

[MDF99]

After thinking about what design I would most like to have in a new B-C mold, it would be a "proven" (flies well at practical hunting ranges and beyond) Keith design at 300 grains or heavier in 45cal. Perhaps a copy of the NEI #320. I'd be in on a group buy for this mold.

[taminsong]

This is nice.

I'm just curious, Tommygirl, any pics for your 0.835 bullet? I never seen one!

[MDF99]

"also throwing the question to MDF99, Is the base of the sizer iron --- steel - aluminum?"

The base is an aluminum casting and there probably is enough material for a larger die but I can't say for certain if it would work out. Here's an old pic of my messy sizing setup so you can see the base:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...8&postcount=14

[Ken 45LC]

BC, Good luck in your new venture.

I would like to know if you plan on modifying the mark VI like finishman 2000 did? I've been trying to save up for one, instead of buying a star. I'd prefer to pay for the machine already made the way i'd like instead of having to do all the mods afterwards.

I too would like to see a price drop, but not at the expense of lesser quality. I'm a firm believer in paying for a quality item once.

Good luck,

Ken