Had a thought, Blackhawk 454 casull???

[Big Ryan]

Simple ?...I have a ruger 45 colt bisley. Thinking about getting a second cylinder for it and reaming it to 454casull. Can the BH Bisley frames handle 454 pressures, or would I have to upgrade to the redhawk frame? Currently the strongest factory chambering in the Bisley BH I could find online is the 44 mag with a max sami cup of 36,000 where as the 454 casull has a max cup at 65,000. So I was wondering just how much pressure is the BH frame rated for? According to HP White laboratories the Ruger .45 Colt destroys itself at about 65,000 CUP. Any info would be much appreciated Cheers, BR

[Piedmont]

Blackhawk six shot in .45 will handle up to about 32,000 psi safely.

[GARCIA]

Destruction would normally be the cylinder.
IMHO you see the likes of Bowen,Linebaugh, Clements and all the other high end smith's using the blackhawk/bisley as a starting platform for the bigs guns.

Should be able to do it no problem with a custom cylinder.

There is a guy that swapped out a super redhawk 454 cylinder into a regular redhawk platform over on the Ruger forum.

It all deals with cylinder strength IMHO.

Tom

[subsonic]

You would not be able to do it with a six shot xylinder. The cylinder is too thin. 5 shot no problem.

[Potsy]

Again, no prob for a custom 5 shot cylinder. Before I laid out the cash I'd try going to 28-32,000CUP with my .45 Colt.
Oh the places you'll go. With a lot less recoil. Not much stuff in FL you won't shoot plumb through with it either.

[Big Ryan]

Ok, so everyone is concuring that the Bisley BH frame is more then strong enough, its the cylinder that is not, right? Who would any of you recommend to make such a custom 5 shot cylinder at a reasonable price? .....Posty, I shoot everything in FL with a 223, so I know the 45colt is more then sufficent. This is not a matter of the 45colt not doing the job, its a matter of having a kewl custom 454 bisley for target shooting and possibly IHMSA shoots, without dropping $2500 on a FA. Plus I really like the Bisley grip angle alot more then other pistols that shoot the 454, like the redhawk, the BFR, or taurus.

[subsonic]

Look at a BFR. Probably cheaper than the cylinder.

[Ben]

Big Ryan:

I once read where Ruger took their Super Redhawk in 44 mag and converted it to 454 Casull for trials. On the 1st round fired, the 454 Casull round destroyed the gun. Back to the drawing board for Ruger with completely new metallurgy, etc.

Ruger sternly warns against any attempt to convert one of their 44 mag revolvers to 454 Casull.

My initial thoughts on all this is that if you'd like a nice 454 Casull, you ( for your own safety ) would be better off buying a factory pistol that has been built, tested, and has a nice " safety margin " for the Casull cartridge.

With these kinds of pressures in the 454 Casull ( 57K CIP ) ( as you can see in Ruger's early testing and catastrophic revolver failure ), you may only get one chance to " get it right."

I pulled this paragraph ( below ) from this link, you may want to look at it :

http://www.sixguns.com/range/454_super_redhawk.htm


Yes the Super Redhawk even though it is chambered in .454 Casull, and even though both Freedom Arms and Taurus use five-shot cylinders, will be a true sixgun with six cartridge holes in the unfluted cylinder. I know the question will be asked so we will handle it right now. NO! The .44 Super Redhawk should not be re-chambered to .454. When I called Ruger and asked them what changes were made to accommodate the newer, higher pressure cartridge, they informed me of two major changes. The steel used in the KSRH-7454 (Model number assigned to the Super Redhawk .454) is of a higher grade than that used for the .44 Magnum model, and the heat treating is different. Neither of these can be duplicated by any gunsmith that would convert the .44 to .454 and Ruger, of course, will not convert any existing guns to .454.

Ben

[Potsy]

A HA!!
I'm much better at this game once I've figured out were leaving practicality out of the picture!

Hamilton Bowen at Bowen Classic Arms did some action work on my Bisley and put a set of his target sights on it and I'm very happy with it. He can also build you a 5-shot custom .454 (or .475 Linebauegh or .500 Linebaugh).

It does get expensive though. I think (too lazy to look on his sight) his 5-shot conversions run around $1500 on your gun (there are those whose work is probably as good, who are somewhat cheaper). The expense comes in with needing to fab a whole new cylinder and not just ream the old one. Plus, on .475's & .500's the cylinders are larger diameter, requiring the cylinder window to be enlarged (not sure about the .454). Not to mention action work, target sights, etc.

I've thought about one of his .475 conversions, we've got more grizzlies and buffalo here in TN than ya'll do in FL (wink wink).

Hate to plug another site, but do a little digging on the Ruger Forum. There's a pic from just about every custom Ruger 'smith somewhere on there.

[Ickisrulz]

I don't understand why you wouldn't just buy a BFR. Aren't they pretty much like a very nice Super Blackhawk for under $1K?

[Big Ryan]

I don't understand why you wouldn't just buy a BFR. Aren't they pretty much like a very nice Super Blackhawk for under $1K?

Plus I really like the Bisley grip angle alot more then other pistols that shoot the 454, like the redhawk, the BFR, or taurus. The BFR feels too much like a super BH to me. The grip angle stinks IMO, and it ends up biting my knuckle on the trigger guard when shooting magnum cartridges. If you ever compared the grip of a Bisley frame to that of a non-bisley BH you would see where Im comming from. After readin Ben's last post, Im wondering now if there is any difference in the steel quality between the 44mag bisley & the 45 colt bisley? I own both, and would be using the 45 colt frame for the conversion because of the barrel diameter. Does'nt Gary Reeder use Bisley frames for his 454 conversions? Sure looks like it to me? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=245946641

[Big Ryan]

Ok, after seeing Gary infact does do these conversions, I decided to give him a call. He used to live right next door to my grandfather 20yrs ago when he lived in FL, so I know him failry well. Anyways, he said that the Bisley frame is more then strong enough for the conversion, but as ya'll mentioned the cylinder is not, nor is the factory barrel. He said a custom 5 shot cylinder would be installed and all internals replaced to cope with the rotation on the 5 shot, Plus a new stronger SS barrel in standard factory contour up to 8" in length. All for $600 using my pistol. Thats $350 for the cylinder & internals & then $250 for the new stronger barrel. If I want a Octagon barrel it would be $500, so I would be looking at $850 total then. He said that the super redhawks have a strong enough factory 6 shot cylinder & barrel that all is required to do with them is a simple cylinder rebore job. So, the conclusion is I can get this done with my pistol, Which was $500, and be at $1100 for the total investment. Not to bad I think for a custom revolver. Ofcouse the octagon barrel and a good porting job would bump me up into the $1500 total investment. Still not too bad considering these pistols quite often bring 2k or more on the auction sites. He said it would take 6-8 weeks. I would'nt mind going with one of Gary's custom GNR based rounds (Like the 510GNR), but If I keep with the 454 idea I can still shoot all these 45 colts I have loaded up.

[boatswainsmate]

Look at the bottom of the page
http://www.customsixguns.com/sixguns.htm

[Big Ryan]

Look at the bottom of the page
http://www.customsixguns.com/sixguns.htm

LOL, That woulda saved alot of searching. Thanks boats! Man, Thats kewl, he even does .475 & .500 Linebaugh Bisley Conversions. ....One final question though, I see these barrel bands at the end of some of the ruger custom revolvers, what exactly are they used for?, or are they just for aesthetics?

[boatswainsmate]

This guys are theone's to ask that question
http://singleactions.proboards.com/index.cgi

[Nueces]

Look closely at how that Ruger muzzle band is fitted and see that it's rear flange lies against the end of the ejector housing, keeping it from taking flight after the puny little fixin' screw shears under recoil.

Mark

[subsonic]

If youre doing this, why not just go 5 shot .45 colt? You can match the casull with cheaper components. You are limited only by cylinder length, not case length because you can use a boolit that gives the same internal case capacity as the .454 when using .45 colt brass by simply placing the crimp groove further toward the base of the boolit by the difference in case length. OAL will stay the same, as will case capacity. And you said you already load for .45 colt.

[Big Ryan]

If youre doing this, why not just go 5 shot .45 colt? You can match the casull with cheaper components. You are limited only by cylinder length, not case length because you can use a boolit that gives the same internal case capacity as the .454 when using .45 colt brass by simply placing the crimp groove further toward the base of the boolit by the difference in case length. OAL will stay the same, as will case capacity. And you said you already load for .45 colt.

Yes, but the 45colt brass is no where near as thick or strong as 454 cases. Thus you can safely push the 454 much faster & much flatter at longer distances without the worry of case failure.

[BCall]

Did you read this article? I don't think you would have any trouble with modern 45 colt brass, unless you intend on loading beyond what is considered safe.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...d=321&magid=24

[shooting on a shoestring]

"Yes, but the 45colt brass is no where near as thick or strong as 454 cases."

Not being sarcastic, but are they really?

I'd like to measure one or a couple. I just ran out to my bench and measured the following for case thickness. No means a complete list, just what was in easy reach for me at the moment. I don't have any .454 cases.

RP 45/70 0.011
Hornady 45/70 0.0115
Win 45 Colt 0.011
Starline 45 Colt 0.012
Win 45 ACP 0.011
Win 44 Mag 0.011
45 Shceofeld 0.015
RP 30/30 0.011
unkn .308 0.016
unkn .243 0.016
win .357 0.012
Win .38 0.012

I wonder just what the neck thickness is on a 454 Casull.