310 cadet martini

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Just thought, for those that need them, I'd add the method I use for making a heeled bullet for my 10.4x47R Vetterli-Vitali. I use .429 bullets, and after sizing/lubing them, run them down part way in a smaller sizing die, just to the band I use as a stop band. I had to open up a smaller die to get the perfect diameter, but this is no problem, if the right die isn't available, there are guys who make custom sizing dies on this forum.
Morgan

[Boz330]

Greetings fellow cadt 310 shooters. I am beginning to re-load for this rifle and I am trying to sort out the proper powder charges and bullet weights etc. and I could use some advice.

I purchased new 310 brass from Bertram, an RCBS 310 heeled-bullet mould, a set of RCBS dies, and made up some test rounds. I used 6- 8- and 10-grains of IMR 4227 and remmington small rifle primers. I had no way to crimp, so I am open for suggestions here? Lubed by dipping the bullets into Lee Anlox lube.

At the range the 6-grain loads barely made it out of the barrel and left behind lots of unburned or partially burned powder. The 8-grain loads grouped well but were 3-4 inches high at 50 yds. The 10-grain loads were centered on target and grouped 3-4 inches at 50 yds.

So am I on the right track here, or should I look for better propllant (e.g., Red Dot, 2400, etc.) for these 310 loads?

Thanks, Kabloona15

Try 7.6gr of AA#9. A friend that shoots a lot of Cadet says this meters well and shoots to the sights. I haven't tried it yet so use caution.

Bob

[BAGTIC]

45 2.1-

Not only that, but 32-20 is (I might be mistaken, but the .218 Bee was developed from 32-20, and it had -) the same headsize as the .357 mag. and .38 special.

The .357 Magnum and the .32-20 do NOT have the same headsize.

[Kabloona15]

BOZ330: What is the trick to prevent the over expansion of the case neck when seating the RCBS 310 cast bullet into a Bertram brass case? It appears that the "heeled" neck of the cast bullet from the RCBS mould is too large and as a result it enlarges the case neck diameter to the point where the finished round will not chamber. Any suggestions?

Thanks, Kabloona

[Kabloona15]

BOZ330: Tried AA#9 and RED DOT both with good results. Thanks! Now I am dealing with over expansion of the brass case neck when seating cast bullets from my RCBS 310 mould - seems the narrower "heel" end of the bullets is too large and over expands the case neck.
Thanks, Kabloona

[NoDakJak]

I finally have a few results to report on the new group buy mold for the .310. The boolits are acww. The shanks measure .306/.307 with the rest measuring .320/.321.
I used new Remington 32.20 brass to make the cases. I trimmed the cases to 1.070 and then chucked them in the lathe and faced the stamping from the case and then finished thinning the rim from the front with a triangular file. The chamber in the rifle was used as a go/nogo gauge. Once you do a few you get the knack and it goes quickly.
Reloading is simplicity itself. I simply full length size in the 32.20 die and then expand them in an old 30 Carbine die. The first ten cases were from an older lot and I was able to seat the boolits with strong thumb pressure. They fit tight enough that it required the use of pliers to pull them back out of the case. No crimp required or desired. The next fifty evidently had slightly thicker brass. I started the boolits by hand and then used a simple little arbor press to seat the boolits. I finger lubed the boolits after loading with Johnson Paste Wax. It quickly dries hard and doesn't have a tendency to pick up dirt and grit.
I used the RED DOT data that was supplied by BIG JOHN for my first loads.
3.5 grains of Red Dot averaged 1,022 fps and left a clean and very shiny bore. The group wasn't anything to shout about.
2.8 grains of Bullseye averaged 966 fps and was quiet. The bore was clean but the group poor.
3.4 grains of GREEN DOT averaged 1,035 and the group was excellent. The bore was clean.
3.9 grains of PB averaged 1,096 and left the bore VERY clean. The group was almost as good as with Green Dot.
3.6 grains of old Unique averaged 1,012 fps. This is where things went to pot! Group was very poor. Ten shots left dense black fouling and when this was removed it was found that this load had provided severe leading. Since the velocity is in the same range as the other loads I surmise the leading was caused by the increased friction from the black soot. Someone correct me if I am wrong about this. If I increased the load to 4.0 grains it would probably raise the pressures enough to cause it to burn clean. I will probably come back to it later but there a dozen other powders that I want to test first.
Lots of testing to do and I still need to finish the new stock. I'm shooting it without a fore end at this time. Have fun! Neil

[NoDakJak]

I managed to get out to the range yesterday and tested two more loads. The first was
3.5 grains of ZIP with WSP primers. Velocity was 1,006 fps and the group was medicore. I think that I will drop this load two tenths grain and try again.
3.2 grains of 231 averaged 979 and gave by far the best group of any loads tested. Five shots in 15/16" with three of them touching. That is at 30 yards where most of my small game shooting occurs. There was no leading. Nada!
Lets hear from some of you other Martini shooters. Neil

[358wcf]

Great to see the interest in these fine little rifles- I own 3 of these beauties, and find them a great deal of fun!
#1 is a Westley Richards cadet that was a gift from my wife (love her DEARLY) back in 1976- had it rebored by a 'smith in San Gabriel, CA, rechambered for the 357 Magnum. Williams sights finished the job- a magnificent little rifle, it has taken uncounted ground squirrels, skunks, porcupines, possums, and 6 California Blacktail deer! Every one a one-shot kill with factory 158gr HP ammo- I've been playing with the 200gr FN GC RCBS bullet and 2400 powder, but have run out of sight elevation to stay on the paper at 100 yds- 50 yrds is great. Note- I just got a NEW Lyman 66 receiver sight designed for the Martini Cadet off evilBay, and plan to get it installed to fix the elevation limitation- wish me luck!
#2&3 are BSA, one has the windage adjustable rear sight, the other does not.
Looking to rebore the adj. sighted one to 357 Maximum soon, if I can find a 'smith interested in the job- contact me by email if you know of anyone! Please!?!
Fixed sight one will be kept original, and I plan to get the Buffalo Arms brass and cast some of the RCBS heeled projectiles-

An interesting note on the Westley Richards- the chamber is tight enough that loaded rounds with cast bullets won't chamber easily- UNLESS if run them through a sizer die after loading! Strange, but it works well- seems to "iron out" the finished round with no other changes.

358wcf in Concord, CA

[Bigjohn]

358wcf, Welcome to the fold. The little Cadet rifle can be very addictive. With your rounds that won't load, what is your case length?

If you are belling the case mouth, don't put too much on; you only want enough to allow the boolit base to start entering the case.

Keep on going and let us know how you are getting along.

John

[Myshot]

After you have loaded the round, take the spindle out of the sizing die and then run the loaded round into the sizing die. This crimps the case onto the bullet and it alighns the bullet. Once this is done there should be no chambering problems. Just like the 22 rimfire. I have found it improves accuracy as well. I have been doing this for three cadet rifles without any problem. this advice can also be sought from Bruce at Bertram bullets and Jim at CBE. ADI 2205 and 120 outside lubed bullet from Blackhark cast bullets group 1 1/2-1 1/2 inches at 50 yards. The 128 grn heeled bullet from the same manufacurer does not group quite as tight. 2205 is a dirty powder as it leaves unburnt powder in the barrel and action. I am trying some AP70 next. I found AS30 too hot and accuracy was no good.

[Nevek]

I am starting to reload my 310 Cadet. I have the dies I got from Australia a few years back. I got the 32-20 starline brass. and lead bullets healed bullets. I have trimmed the neck and started reload process. But I need to know powder measure amount. Any ideas?

[john.k]

Depends on the powder......Trailboss works OK ,for starters,using about 4 1/2 gr.......What gun do you have .....there is a difference in groove diameters .....the 1st delivery guns ,have a .316 groove,all the 2nd model BSA s have .320 groove dia,as do replacements barrels ordered from Greeners in the 1920s.(the shallow groove barrels wore too quickly)......If you have a tight fitting firing pin and use hard bullets ,you can use 30 M1 loads for 2000fps+ ......but be warned ,these loads will lock up the block/ firing pin hole if its loose enough to extrude the primer..

[samari46]

Kinda surprised when I saw this thread and realized I started it back in 2007 13 years ago. And used a different handle as well. My cadet is a bitsa, bits of this and that. However the action and complete stock work are all original, the only difference is the barrel. Frank

[Skippy303]

You might be interested in some information on the 310 cadet we have found out the hard way and might be of interest.

Cases are readily available from Bruce Bertram his website is https://bertrambrass.com/ I also believe Huntington’s are an agent for Bertram brass. These case’s last a long time I tried making cases from 32/20 I gave it up not worth the effort.

Cast bullets used are universally CBE’s https://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/ their 320-120 it is the correct heeled bullet it’s base is .310 and the driving band is 320.5 from my mould, shoot as cast lubricated with Lee liquid Alox. I use range scrap with about 1% tin for casting I have tried linotype, Lyman no2 and could not tell the difference so its range scrap and 1% tin for me. CBE’s website has a very good description of the 320-120 mould they also have some very good 303b moulds have a look at 315-218GC and 315-240GC. Both of these moulds work very well in Long Tom’s and Lee Medford’s.

I only use Trail Boss start a 3.5 then go to 4 and finally 4.5 grains, 4.5 is a bugger to load as it fills the case to capacity so I use 4 as do most of us do, some use 3.5 surprisingly 4.5 is the most accurate but as I said it’s a bugger to load 4grains is almost as accurate. Make sure you small pistol primers. Best Trail Boss other loads for the 32/20 5.5 g with any 115 to 120 grain bullet and SP primers. With the 308, 30-06 and 303B with any bullet over 160grains start at 10grains and stop at 13grains if you do not find an accurate load between those charge weights you will have to try something else.

Lee make 310 cadet dies and an auto prime shell holder the major concern is the Lee bullet seating die does not crimp we have found a mild to medium crimp is best, so I and the majority of us use SIMPLEX Master dies they crimp the bullet. Several of my shooting friends have learnt the hard way about Lee bullet seating dies they had to purchase a separate SIMPLEX Master Bullet seating die so now they can crimp. Next time you look at a Lee bullet seating die look if it has machined flats on the side of the die body flats means it crimps no flats no crimp so you have to buy a separate bullet crimping die.

http://simplexreloading.com.au/