In Praise of Lyman's 457191

[Cast of Thousands]

Hello, Mostly I've been a lurker. Now I believe I have something to offer and hope I make no forum procedural errors. IMO the 292gr 457191 is worthy of consideration as a GB. It is possibly one of the best dual purpose molds I own. Cast of Roto Metal's Hard Ball it can be lubed with LLA and loaded unsized (.459) into 45-70 cases over 33 grains of AA5744. It shoots to about 1 inch at 50 yards with open sights in my Marlin 336 (Ballard Groove) making it one of the most pleasant 45-70 loads you can use. You can load the 45-70 up or down from here depending on your rifle and your bullet alloy strength. Cast it hard for targets or out of WW for hunting.

Now, here's the icing on the cake. This bullet cast with 40 to 1 (or pure lead for that matter) and sized to .457 nose first through a lee sizer fits into a MMP orange sabot and goes down the barrel of my Savage ML10 50 caliber muzzle loader with just the right resistance for accuracy. Bullet performance using 41gr of AA5744 is stellar. The soft lead cannot lead the barrel because it is riding in a sabot and expansion is excellent. Unscoped groups are about 1 inch at 50 yards. I don't think my 65 year old eyes may be up to doing any better.
Warning!!! Do not use this load in muzzleloaders not designed for smokeless powder.
For me 457191 normally drops at about 300 grains using 40 to 1 or pure lead. Alas, I only own a single cavity mold and would love to have a multi available possibly with a hollow point option. My mould has the demonized bevel base ( which has caused me no problems) but the group buy could be for a plain base version. Oh, to be able to drop 5 of these at a time: That's my ambition.

Ron

[ktw]

I also have single cavity Lyman blocks in this design that cast in the .459-.460 range. I use it in a 45 Colt carbine and it works well for that application.

-ktw

[no34570]

I would be interested in a group buy from NOE,in this,with the hollowpoint option......wow,that would be something.

Now, here's the icing on the cake. This bullet cast with 40 to 1 (or pure lead for that matter) and sized to .457 nose first through a lee sizer fits into a MMP orange sabot and goes down the barrel of my Savage ML2 50 caliber muzzle loader with just the right resistance for accuracy. Bullet performance using 41gr of AA5744 is stellar. The soft lead cannot lead the barrel because it is riding in a sabot and expansion is excellent. Unscoped groups are about 1 inch at 50 yards. I don't think my 65 year old eyes may be up to doing any better.

Awwww.....your teasing me,here in Australia,it is illegal to have sabots(I think),I have a .50cal muzzle-loader and would love to have some of these .

[WARD O]

Isn't this the boolit originally designed for use in some of the old Winchester calibers such as 45-60 and 45-90 from the 1800's? (likely other 45 black powder calibers as well) I bet it's taken a lot of game over the years.

It doesn't really have a crimp groove but some leave the lube out of the top groove and use it to crimp. Perhaps a slight redesign to make a real crimp groove would be a consideration.

Ward

[Cast of Thousands]

I guess most folks here are interested in heavy boolits.

[masscaster]

Hi Folks,
I actually just sent Al a couple of this boolit design for dimensions (as well as some others).
A 3 or 4 cav. would interest me in this design also. Perhaps .460 Diameter Aluminum.
It couldn't hurt for someone to bring this link to Swede's attention for a possible GB.

Jeff

[no34570]

Here is a picture of it,if any one is interested?

[no34570]

We could get this in a GC version too?

[Cast of Thousands]

Hi,
Thanks for posting the picture. I think plain bases, gas checks, hollow points are all possible.
It's up to Swede. It's a great lighter weight 45-70 boolit.

I load them as-cast unsized lubed with Lee Liquid Alox.

[no34570]

Hi,
Thanks for posting the picture. I think plain bases, gas checks, hollow points are all possible.
It's up to Swede. It's a great lighter weight 45-70 boolit.

I load them as-cast unsized lubed with Lee Liquid Alox.

It has got possibilities,with this design,like you said gc,plain base,hollow point & different size hollow points,could or would make this a very versatile bullet,to be used in the 45/70 & 450Marlin type rifles,I like it !

[Cast of Thousands]

With this boolit loaded mildly as cast (.459) in my Marlin SS 1895, (33grains 5744) I shot turtles at a friend's pond at his invitaion. He was amazed at my choice of rifles, because he knows I have more guns than the National Guard. Accurate, deadly, and easy on the shoulder. You can't beat that combination.

Ron

[Aaron]

I would be in.

Aaron

[hicard]

I would be intersted in a mould with PB and GC w/hp combinations to be used in 45 Colt, 45 Win. Magnum, 458 Socom and 45-70 at higher velocities. Would it be even possible to squeeze a .460 down to .452?

[slowlead]

My favorite, mild shooting thumper (carry) load in a ruger 45 colt is a 457191 sized to .452. It weighs 309 grs in soft WW alloy. I had to raise the front sight a tad to get it to sight in but the reduction in size does not seem to hurt accuracy in 45 colt. 9.0 grs of unique makes a very pleasant load that smacks with authority. I worked up several Ruger only 110/296 loads with this bullet in my youth (early 70's) that would shoot thru 3/8 mild steel plates. My mould casts at .4575 with WW alloy and is too small to shoot well in most marlins and all trapdoors i own. This was my first bullet mould (1974) and still casts well after tens of thousands of bullets. Its My favorite ground hog roller bullet in 45 caliber. Tom

[no34570]

Just a shameless BUMP

[man.electric]

I am in if this GB ever happens. The idea is solid and I already have loads in my head worked up.

[rockrat]

I would say make it at least .460", but my trapdoor would prefer a .461"

I would be in for one

[SwedeNelson]

Something to look at

This is from the sample that masscaster sent

And this would be the modified version.




Swede Nelson

[no34570]

Wow
I like the first two boolit pictures that Al posted.
I'm in!

[LeadBrain]

I Would be interested in this. Nice size for all around use.