John Ross's 400gr Alley Cleaner starts here.

[69daytona]

Ok guys here is John Ross's 400gr Alley Cleaner. There is a GC and PB version, Both are based on John Ross's design with a slight mod made for the GC. It will be done in a Cramer mold and working on getting a brass 2 cavity made for it.

The GC version is 3D and will have the Penta and Round HP pins that will be the same as the PB design. Click on the 3D and check out all the different angles and look down the large HP.

Thanks Longbow.

[69daytona]

69daytona. 1 mold with 2 PB and 2 GC if we can get it made in a 4 cavity.

[Paulinski]

Paulinski - One mould - 2 cavity gas check - 2 cavity plain base.

[John Ross]

69, is the .22 drawing for the Ramset blanks? If it is, I assume those dimensions aren't finalized yet.

[Spartacus]

As usual I'm waiting to see what John wants and then I'll order.

[69daytona]

Waiting on the final drawing for the 22 ramset when it is done I will post it here. All the dimensions from these will be the same its just the HP pin will be much larger for the Ramset to fit in.

[John Ross]

Waiting on the final drawing for the 22 ramset when it is done I will post it here. All the dimensions from these will be the same its just the HP pin will be much larger for the Ramset to fit in.

I think the penta cavity is actually larger in volume, but I may be wrong.

I'll take one 4-cavity PB and one 4-cavity GC. Penta and Ramset pins for each, and a set of flat ones to cast flat nose bullets.

I'll change my order if 4-cav is not going to be available.

[John Ross]

I can't edit my posts!

Edited: Ramset pins may not work well in this application, and I'd need to go to a Lyman type single cavity.

[wilddog45]

Claiming ignorance, what is a 22 ramset? The hp looks very interesting but difficult if not impossible to get off the boolit once cast.

[69daytona]

John, did you get the pic of the ramset?? it is going to be loaded nose first or there will be no way to get it off the HP pin, the nose has plenty of material for the rim to sit down inside and have room for epoxy or whatever you want to use to keep it in place. Let me know if I need to send you the 3d of the ramset design.

[longbow]

Just so everyone is aware, the drawings are a first cut. Dimensions can be altered to suit what you want. Let 69daytona know of any changes and we will sort it out. I can't accommodate everyone so we will go with the majority on changes.

I don't have a .500 S&W so I have no opinion here. I am just providing the drawings.

If a larger meplat and/or hollow point or a different nose bore rider diameter is wanted then it is easy to do, just let me know what you want.

What I need to know is what the goal is ~ specific weight or specific dimensions. Whichever rules, the others will be compromises.

As for the .22 hollow point, I used .22 rimfire dimensions for the cavity. I am not sure of the length, but .22 Ramsets used to fit .22 chambers so this should be close. If anyone has .22 Ramsets and can measure I can check/correct the hollow point. I will say that a straight sided cavity that deep may be a problem with a hollow point pin. Even a slight taper may not do it but I am game if you are.

Longbow

[redneckdan]

I can go get some to measure tomorrow. We use them at the ski hill for rope launchers. I thought 'exploding' bullets were regulated under the DD statutes?

[longbow]

What I will need is:

- rim diameter
- rim thickness
- body diameter
- overall length

I am pretty sure they are standard cartridge sizes or certainly used to be. I used .22 LR for the cavity so unless they make a .22 mag size that should do it but a confirmation with a real Ramset would be good.

You can post dimensions or PM me with them. Thanks.

You may well be right on "exploding" boolits/bullets being regulated.

Many years ago I tried drilling 500 gr. boolits for .22 LR and shot them out of my .45-70. I didn't find they were any better than regular HP but my testing wasn't very scientific either. Ramsets have a little more poop than regular .22 LR though so that may make a difference.

Longbow

[John Ross]

I can go get some to measure tomorrow. We use them at the ski hill for rope launchers. I thought 'exploding' bullets were regulated under the DD statutes?

Only if they have 1/4 ounce or more of explosive material.

[Porterhouse]

I will let others to decide hollow point/cavity design but would like to request minor outer dimensional changes as follows;
Increase bore rider diamter from .493" to .495"
Increase meplat from .473" to .475"
I explained the reason for the bigger bore rider a bit in the initial discussion thread but simply state, I like the bore rider to start engaging with the lands a little, instead of just riding over them. I think .495" will be better for this function but still small enough to fit in the chamber throats.
The reason for the bigger meplat is, well..., I just think the number .473" is odd. Let's just make it .475" or call it 95% meplat.
These are really small things but we all know sometimes, small things make big difference...
John, I guess it's your call.

[John Ross]

I will let others to decide hollow point/cavity design but would like to request minor outer dimensional changes as follows;
Increase bore rider diamter from .493" to .495"
Increase meplat from .473" to .475"
I explained the reason for the bigger bore rider a bit in the initial discussion thread but simply state, I like the bore rider to start engaging with the lands a little, instead of just riding over them. I think .495" will be better for this function but still small enough to fit in the chamber throats.
The reason for the bigger meplat is, well..., I just think the number .473" is odd. Let's just make it .475" or call it 95% meplat.
These are really small things but we all know sometimes, small things make big difference...
John, I guess it's your call.

Fine with me.

[longbow]

As mentioned, some dimensions control and some are compromises. The reason for the 0.473" meplat was that I decided to fit a nice number of 4.25" for the nose radius. One will be "nice" and one will be a compromise if other dimensions are required.

I can make whatever changes you want but I would like to collect the requested changes then make them all once rather than changing and reposting just to get more changes.

Actually if the bore ride diameter is increased to 0.495" that may just take the meplat out to 0.475" with no other changes. Hmmmm, not often things are that easy!

Is there a specific weight desired like right on 400 grs. or just about 400 grs.? If you want right on 400 grs. then the hollow point is the easiest to alter to make weight changes.

Let me know and I will make it so.

Longbow

As a note, 95% meplat would be 0.477" another odd number.

[Porterhouse]

Thanks longbow!
As long as there is no strong objection, I assume bore ride diameter to be .495" and meplat to be .475".
Now, I hope we can get this with 4 cavity molds...

[John Ross]

Is there a specific weight desired like right on 400 grs. or just about 400 grs.?

No. About 400 is fine. Alloy will change this. I want it .900" long with .700" nose and the biggest penta HP possible.

[longbow]

John:

I can make the penta point somewhat larger and still have some "lip" around it. Do you want me to push the limits? I am thinking you might get away with as little as 1/32" or maybe just a hair bigger at the corners. This is such a large boolit that I doubt fillout will be a problem with so much molten mass flowing into the mould.

Again, I had just picked a "nice" number of 0.350" for the diameter inside flats.

If no other changes are requested I will revise the model and drawing to make the meplat 0.475", the bore ride 0.495" and HP larger. I will give it another couple of days.

Longbow