Review of 22LR to 224 Kaine Dies by DanR

[Buckshot]

????

I am lost.

Oh, just to let you all know, I'm not using that lube swage lube stuff. I did, and it works but I like this other stuff.

I'm using some RCBS Case Lube 2. It is water soluble so you can wash it right off. I'm not telling you to use it, but it is what works for me. It's 4 bucks for 2 oz's by the way.

Don't know if it helps or not, but this is what I get. Hope it helps

................Buckshot

[Utah Shooter]

Oh, just to let you all know, I'm not using that lube swage lube stuff. I did, and it works but I like this other stuff.

I'm using some RCBS Case Lube 2. It is water soluble so you can wash it right off. I'm not telling you to use it, but it is what works for me. It's 4 bucks for 2 oz's by the way.

Don't know if it helps or not, but this is what I get. Hope it helps

................Buckshot

Well I did not mean it like that.

I was just curious as to what he was using before the RCBS. I used some RCBS tonight to squirt some lead and it worked really well.

[danr]

he is allergic to castor oil. so the supplied swage lube wasn't compatible with his medical needs.

the rcbs case lube seems to work out well.. so i'll support it..


dan

[MIBULLETS]

The case lube will probably work fine in this application, but generally it isn't as good for the higher pressures on swaging some of the larger rifle bullets. I had also heard of people using STP and being quite happy with it, never tried it myself though. It is water soluble though.

[pcarpenter]

I don't want to take this too far adrift, but speaking of swaging lube...

I've made myself some of the 50-50 castor oil and lanolin stuff and it works...plenty sticky though. I do know you want to stay away from the petroleum based stuff due to dieseling at high pressures created during swaging. The RCBS stuff mentioned is likely not petroleum based if it's water cleanup so it should be OK if it lubricates properly at pressure.

What I really wondered was if anyone has used Lee's case resizing lube for bullet swaging. It's wax based and is repackaged stuff used in the deep-drawing die industry. I don't use it for case sizing so am looking for a good use for it. Hmmm...nevermind. Just walked into my loading room and found the old tube...The tube itself cracked and split open and it rattle's like a snake's tail.

Anyway, the reason it could be handy is that I used to dilute it in alcohol to make a watery stuff that you could dip cases in and then it quickly flash-dried to a waxy film. Could be a lot easier than working with oily hands and you could lube cases (for making jackets) in batches by dropping them all in and then draining them. It cleans off with a quick wash of more of your favorite solvent after use, too.

Paul

[xfoxofshogo]

the rcbs lube I'm using is thick

[ReloaderFred]

I've used Imperial Sizing Die Wax for making .429 bullets in C-H dies, but finally settled on Winchester Spray Case Lube, which is simply Midway's brand of case lube under a different label. Midway closed it out a couple of years ago and I bought 6 bottles of it. The Imperial was slow to use and I needed to speed the process up.

It's easier for me to just put my jackets in a gallon Zip Lock bag and give them a couple of squirts and jostle the bag around a bit to evenly spread the lube. It works well. To clean them after swaging, I spray them with Simple Green and rinse, then they go in the citric acid bath to remove the tarnish from annealing. Then into the tumbler with some ground corn cob and they come out shining better than factory bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Utah Shooter]

I've used Imperial Sizing Die Wax for making .429 bullets in C-H dies, but finally settled on Winchester Spray Case Lube, which is simply Midway's brand of case lube under a different label. Midway closed it out a couple of years ago and I bought 6 bottles of it. The Imperial was slow to use and I needed to speed the process up.

It's easier for me to just put my jackets in a gallon Zip Lock bag and give them a couple of squirts and jostle the bag around a bit to evenly spread the lube. It works well. To clean them after swaging, I spray them with Simple Green and rinse, then they go in the citric acid bath to remove the tarnish from annealing. Then into the tumbler with some ground corn cob and they come out shining better than factory bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Yeah we used that last week too. worked pretty good.

[0verkill]

I don't want to take this too far adrift, but speaking of swaging lube...

I've made myself some of the 50-50 castor oil and lanolin stuff and it works...plenty sticky though. I do know you want to stay away from the petroleum based stuff due to dieseling at high pressures created during swaging. The RCBS stuff mentioned is likely not petroleum based if it's water cleanup so it should be OK if it lubricates properly at pressure.

What I really wondered was if anyone has used Lee's case resizing lube for bullet swaging. It's wax based and is repackaged stuff used in the deep-drawing die industry. I don't use it for case sizing so am looking for a good use for it. Hmmm...nevermind. Just walked into my loading room and found the old tube...The tube itself cracked and split open and it rattle's like a snake's tail.

Anyway, the reason it could be handy is that I used to dilute it in alcohol to make a watery stuff that you could dip cases in and then it quickly flash-dried to a waxy film. Could be a lot easier than working with oily hands and you could lube cases (for making jackets) in batches by dropping them all in and then draining them. It cleans off with a quick wash of more of your favorite solvent after use, too.

Paul

You could drop the dried clump of lube in a pint jar full of alcohol for a few days and see if it dissolves. If it doesn't you're only out fifty cents or so. I wonder if it would do good as a swage lube since I already keep it around.

[MightyThor]

I posted my initial results on the other thread but I will move to this thread for all of my subsequent results.

I made a test batch by using 25 federal cases. I annealed them using a propane torch. They measured .225 before and after annealing.

I then ran them through the De-rim die. 19 of the cases stuck on the punch and had to be removed with pliers. those that did not stick on the punch were not immediately ejected from the die, and only three of those in the die came out undamaged buy the push through process. I was left with 11 useable jackets. They measured .222

I had core blanks that weighed 45 grains. the Core die in this set does not allow you to adjust weight by the swaging process. There are no bleed holes so you can shape the core but not reduce the weight. The cores come out of my die at .200 These cores are a snug fit in the jackets and must be inserted by hand. I mention this because I have a vibratory jig that allows me to shake cores into jackets 100 at a time. that will not work with this die set, the fit is too tight.

After the cores were seated in the jacket the bullet blank weighed 55 grains and was .225

After pointing the bullets measured .229

After pushing them through the final size die the bullets were .223

By comparison, my other die sets produce components sized as follows:

Fired case. .225
De-rimmed .219
Core .191
seated .223
Pointed .224
There is no final re-size of the pointed bullet.

One thought that I had when using this set is that perhaps some time, material, and money might be saved by redesigning the two push through sizing dies so that the sizing function is done by an insert that fits inside a single, holder die. This would save on materials and you should be able to use the same holder for the 243 cal stuff thus making the savings even greater over the long term. I have a de-rim die that uses this system and it works very well.

[danr]

I posted my initial results on the other thread but I will move to this thread for all of my subsequent results.

I made a test batch by using 25 federal cases. I annealed them using a propane torch. They measured .225 before and after annealing.

I then ran them through the De-rim die. 19 of the cases stuck on the punch and had to be removed with pliers. those that did not stick on the punch were not immediately ejected from the die, and only three of those in the die came out undamaged buy the push through process. I was left with 11 useable jackets. They measured .222

I had core blanks that weighed 45 grains. the Core die in this set does not allow you to adjust weight by the swaging process. There are no bleed holes so you can shape the core but not reduce the weight. The cores come out of my die at .200 These cores are a snug fit in the jackets and must be inserted by hand. I mention this because I have a vibratory jig that allows me to shake cores into jackets 100 at a time. that will not work with this die set, the fit is too tight.

After the cores were seated in the jacket the bullet blank weighed 55 grains and was .225

After pointing the bullets measured .229

After pushing them through the final size die the bullets were .223

By comparison, my other die sets produce components sized as follows:

Fired case. .225
De-rimmed .219
Core .191
seated .223
Pointed .224
There is no final re-size of the pointed bullet.

One thought that I had when using this set is that perhaps some time, material, and money might be saved by redesigning the two push through sizing dies so that the sizing function is done by an insert that fits inside a single, holder die. This would save on materials and you should be able to use the same holder for the 243 cal stuff thus making the savings even greater over the long term. I have a de-rim die that uses this system and it works very well.

hello mightythor,
thank you for your review.. did i read that your core swage didn't have a bleed hole? i personaly tested your set of dies, and there was a bleed hole when it was tested. can you take another close look? perhaps the bleed hole is filled with lead making it hard to see.

it should be 1.29 from the top of the die along the side between the threads.
if you held both of the dies that have black "top punches" with a shinny nut on the top, and look at them from the bottom, the smaller cavity one would be the core swage die.

it should have a bleed hole that match to the very start of the ejector.

if you still cannot find the bleed hole and you believe it doesn't have one after checking, it would be considered by myself as a poor quality or poor construction of the die.. i will ship you a new one asap from free.

i do not know how this could have happened with my quality assurance steps that i currently have. if a bleed hole wasn't present during testing and tuning of your dies, it would have been noticed. all tests are done with JUST your set, and i do not substute anything while testing. only raw uncupped rimfires and cores are used during testing.

let me know what you find.
Thanks
Dan

[Utah Shooter]

One thought that I had when using this set is that perhaps some time, material, and money might be saved by redesigning the two push through sizing dies so that the sizing function is done by an insert that fits inside a single, holder die. This would save on materials and you should be able to use the same holder for the 243 cal stuff thus making the savings even greater over the long term. I have a de-rim die that uses this system and it works very well.

Yeah my one of my Corbin de rim dies has an insert like that. I never thought that it could be used to put in a different insert. That is a pretty good idea.

[xfoxofshogo]

ther is a brake in point for the dies i hade a hard time at frist till i did a bout a 100-200 then it got realy ezy

[danr]

you can speed up the break in process by using "All Metal Polish" by Meguiars, found at most autoparts stores for polishing MAG rims.

use it as a lube for a fiew bullets, Watch the sizes of the bullets as you do this, best to check each one as you use the polish.. little by little, the polish will further smooth out the dies, and help break them in.. after using the polish for a fiew bullets, use a cotton swab and clean out the polish, then switch back to using normal swage lube.

you'll notice things are a little easier work.

but it should be noted, that doing this will change the die cavities slightly.. but this is the point of doing it.. so be sure to watch the bullet sizes.. if you notice a size change, discontenue using the polish, and allow the dies to break in as normal.

thanks,
dan

[Bollocks]

Hi Gents,

Just FWIW, I use Dillon case lube for all my swaging operations (Corbin and CH4D dies). It contains Lanolin and work as desired for me. Imperial wax was a bit too thick.

Chrs from Holland,
BolloX

[sargenv]

I believe the Dillon lube uses the non-anhydrous lanolin as it's base.. this is the type you can find at some markets that cater to people who make up their own cosmetics and emolients. Whole foods sells a 4 oz bottle of Lanolin that can be thinned with alcohol to get to the consistency of the Dillon lube.. Most of the people who use Lanolin for bullet forming and swaging choose to use anhydrous Lanolin, in other words, it is thicker and has little to no water.

[Bollocks]

@ Sargenv

Is there any harm in using the non-anhydrous Lanolin type?

Rgds,
BolloX

[danr]

there are two types of lanolin. the anhydrous lable means "WATER" non-anhydrous means "No Water"

you can pick up the Non-Anhydrous at places like walmart, they carry it in the babby section for Breast feeding mothers.. its babby safe.

the Anhydrous version is watered down.. many people have used it to make Spray on swage or reloading lube out of it, and it works pretty well. you can find it at health foods stores.


dan

[GRUMPA]

Or just get it from one of the vendor sponsors here on the board.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=96820
Don't know about price comparison between him and one of those box stores, but his service is second to non. Got some of that in with other stuff from him and talk about thick stuff, it sticks to almost anything it comes in contact with. Hope it helps

[BT Sniper]

there are two types of lanolin. the anhydrous lable means "WATER" non-anhydrous means "No Water"

you can pick up the Non-Anhydrous at places like walmart, they carry it in the babby section for Breast feeding mothers.. its babby safe.

the Anhydrous version is watered down.. many people have used it to make Spray on swage or reloading lube out of it, and it works pretty well. you can find it at health foods stores.


dan

You got it backwords there Dan. Better look into it a bit more.

Anhydrous: As a general term, a substance is said to be anhydrous if it contains no water.

Above statment was copied from wikipedia

BT