Powder for 45acp, 9mm, and 38 special

[lts70]

Well I was playing with the idea of switching powders but I got a good deal on 10lbs of winchester 231 (one 8lb jug and two 1lb cans) for $10 a pound. So that made up my mind pretty quick. Looks like I will useing 231 for quite awhile now. And the dude threw in two old beat up 1911 7rounder magazines in for free. the 8 pound jug is in the new plastic jug but the two 1lb cans are in metal cans. I opened one up to use and it still had the glued on plastic seal. He said that they have been in his dads basement at 67 degrees since new and never opened. If stored like that it shouldent have a shelf life right?

[garym1a2]

Bullseye is hard to beat for me in the 38 and 45acp. I also got good results with the WSF in 9mm.

I think Bullseye is too fast for 9mm and not great in 38 high speed loads.

For and all around load Unique or a similia burn rate powder should be good. It just does not meter well for me.

[MtGun44]

Stored cool in the original sealed cans powder lasts for many decades.

Bill

[fredj338]

I like Titegroup in standard pistol calibers, H110 in the magnums.

Wow, you can't get more opp ends of the spectrum. Friends don't let friends load TG.

[Shooter6br]

Universal .Unique "flamming dirt" as second choice if Universal isnt available

[Vinne]

You got one heck of a deal!!! The problem I have always ran into when loading for a wide range of cases is you find yourself loading for the powder instead of loading for the case. Some of the ammo, say 38s or 9s can't be loaded too light and others like 44s or45s can't be loaded hot enough. I get a large container for the rounds I reload a lot and smaller ones for the others.

[pistolman44]

Have been reloading for about 30 yrs. I switched to Titegroup for all my non magnum calibers. It is very accurate in my 45 ACP's.

[MtGun44]

TG is a fine powder in it's range. Great for .45 ACP for sure, and good for the other two.

I use Clays for .38 Spl and SP8 for 9mm only because I came into a large quantity for free in one
case and nearly free in the other case. And since I use 3.0 gr of Clays and 6.5 gr of SP8, it will
be quite a while before I work through the first 8 lbs of each. Sometimes economics chooses
the powder for you.

Bill

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, I'm primarily a pistol shooter and loader, and I've been loading for a quarter century now, including a few years with my manufacturer's license loading for several gunshops, so I've got some experience with various powders, plus I had the need to narrow down the range of powders I use for pistol loading. I got it down to two powders to cover everything.

At the risk of spearing many sacred animals, here is my take on a general-use powder you are asking about:

Bullseye and Titegroup are two peas in the same pod. Titegroup was designed to compete directly with BE, and it does so quite well. Both of these powders are workable, but way too fast burning with spikey-pressures at the top end for an all-around powder. They were designed to be low-velocity, target-load powders, not all-around, general-purpose load powders, and it shows when they are pushed too far. (Sorry BE and TG fans...)

All the slow powders (slower than Unique) such as AA#5, 800x, Power Pistol, WSF, etc. are too slow to be all-around powders. They make reasonably-good medium-power loads in large-capacity cases like 44 Mag, 45 Colt, and 357 Mag, but none of them get to the top end in them... They make OK full-power loads in small cases, but generally leave a lot of unburnt powder, and they're not efficient from an internal ballistics point of view. Another important consideration is that these loads burn a lot of powder, so you get fewer loads per pound, vs. a more efficient powder. These powders really only shine (but do so very well) in the full-power loads for medium-calibers, like 40S&W, 10mm, 38 Spl., and 45ACP+P. Workable, but not ideal as all-around powders.

The ideal powders run from about Red Dot thru Unique. The powders in this range will give you reasonable velocity with reasonable pressure with reasonable charge-weights (to maximize your loads-per-pound). My traditional favorite is SMP231 (St. Marks Powder 231), which is sold by Winchester as W231 and Hodgdon as HP38. It is a medium- to large-grit ball powder, and so flows very well through powder measures. I've loaded over 150 lbs of this powder in pistol calibers from 380 through 45ACP. I have loaded it in 44 Mag, but not for full-power loads. I load 7.5 to 8.0grs max with a 240gr lead bullet, which is way below book max. At 8.3grs the bullets break the sound barrier, and simultaneously recoil and muzzle blast become sharp (as sharp as full-loads of powder that go up three more grains). I feel that something bad is going on in there, so I limit my 44 loads to 7.5-8.0grs tops. If I need more velocity, I go to a slower powder. My biggest criticism of W231 is that it is a little dirty (more so with lead bullets). Now, it's not as dirty as some powders, but I'd say it's as dirty as Unique, when Unique is fired in a balanced load, which is to say, it will leave a few unburnt granules or particles of powder behind. It's also VERY smokey with soft-lubed boolits and still somewhat smokey with hard-lubed boolits. Jacketed still smokes some, but not as much. Shooting a match in a humid environment may make the range look a little like a civil war battlefield...

Fredj didn't say anything about his favorite powder at this load level... Kind of curious! WST is a ball powder that flows well, bulks well, shoots clean, and gives reasonable (but not top-end) velocities. It's not as spikey as BE/TG, but it can get there. Don't push it, and use it for target loads, and it has a wide application in these calibers. As soon as I go through my last 30 lbs of 231, I'll try some...

Unique is a great powder choice for what you're doing as well. It's not quite as efficient in terms of loads-per-pound as the others mentioned above, but it is very safe, with a broad range of load levels in every caliber. The only downsides to it are: It is a flake powder so doesn't flow quite as nice as the ball powders, and in an unbalanced load (where you're not loading it hot enough to get to good-combustion chamber pressures) it can be dirty.

There's a few others in there that are really good, but peruse any good burn-rate chart and you'll figure out the good ones. A couple especially nice (but too expensive for my tastes for burning this much ammo) are VV N325 and VVN330. When I was a commercial loader, their importer sent me samples, and this was the most amazingly clean powder I ever shot. My guns were actually cleaner after I shot a hundred rounds of these loads than before... (Which isn't saying much for my gun cleaning ethics. )


As far as a good warm-load powder for the 44 in the Ruger carbine - mine likes AA#9, but someone just mentioned H/IMR-4227, and that brought back memories of my loads with that powder. It is a fantastic 44 Mag powder - super accurate, top velocities (or nearly so), and low pressures. It can't be beat. I'd recommend you try some. One warning: I never shoot lead in my Ruger Carbine. It's gas system will get plugged up with lube and lead, and it's not something you want to get good at cleaning...

[lts70]

A co-worker brought me in a full 1lb of plastic bottle of unique powder , a 1/4 of a bottle of H110, and a old square can of Hodgdon's 4831. Now that I can add those 3 powdwers to the line up with my 231, what would be there best use with the calibers in question?

[winelover]

A co-worker brought me in a full 1lb of plastic bottle of unique powder , a 1/4 of a bottle of H110, and a old square can of Hodgdon's 4831. Now that I can add those 3 powdwers to the line up with my 231, what would be there best use with the calibers in question?

Unique for will work for all three (45ACP, 9mm and 38 spl). H4831 is a rifle powder and H110 is for magnum pistol (357 ,44 mag, hot 45 LC).

Winelover

[MtGun44]

Don't underload H110 below the starting loads in books, it is for hot magnum loads and
misbehaves at the lower pressure end. Unique is excellent for all three pistol calibers.
H4831 is for large rifles like .270, .30-06 or even the magnums, fairly slow.

You do have several reloading manuals, right? If not, put them on the IMMEDIATE,
CRITICAL purchase list.

Bill

[KYCaster]

Any idea how HP38 will handle full 44 Mag loads? I need to load for a 44 carbine that hates light loads and will not cycle.

I have 5 lbs of HP38 or so and have used it for .40 in plated and jacketed only as I did not have any lead and in 38spl using a lee RN tumble lube bullet. I want to continue to use the HP38 in RN lead 9mm and again in 44 (if appropriate).

Hodgden's web site shows HP38/W231 loads in 44 Mag up to 38,700 CUP.

HP38 is a very versatile powder that will work in all the cartridges you mention.....but it's not the best choice for high speed loads in magnum cases.

Jerry

[miestro_jerry]

I have been using 231 for very long time in my 45 ACP, 9mm, 38 Special. For my standard 357 Mag, 357 Max and 44 Mag, I use 2400. For hot mags, I use 296/H110. Never had any problems with that line up.

Powder for $10 a pound, that is a great buy, I haven't seen it that cheap in a long time.

Jerry

[garym1a2]

great post.

Well, I'm primarily a pistol shooter and loader, and I've been loading for a quarter century now, including a few years with my manufacturer's license loading for several gunshops, so I've got some experience with various powders, plus I had the need to narrow down the range of powders I use for pistol loading. I got it down to two powders to cover everything.

At the risk of spearing many sacred animals, here is my take on a general-use powder you are asking about:

Bullseye and Titegroup are two peas in the same pod. Titegroup was designed to compete directly with BE, and it does so quite well. Both of these powders are workable, but way too fast burning with spikey-pressures at the top end for an all-around powder. They were designed to be low-velocity, target-load powders, not all-around, general-purpose load powders, and it shows when they are pushed too far. (Sorry BE and TG fans...)

All the slow powders (slower than Unique) such as AA#5, 800x, Power Pistol, WSF, etc. are too slow to be all-around powders. They make reasonably-good medium-power loads in large-capacity cases like 44 Mag, 45 Colt, and 357 Mag, but none of them get to the top end in them... They make OK full-power loads in small cases, but generally leave a lot of unburnt powder, and they're not efficient from an internal ballistics point of view. Another important consideration is that these loads burn a lot of powder, so you get fewer loads per pound, vs. a more efficient powder. These powders really only shine (but do so very well) in the full-power loads for medium-calibers, like 40S&W, 10mm, 38 Spl., and 45ACP+P. Workable, but not ideal as all-around powders.

The ideal powders run from about Red Dot thru Unique. The powders in this range will give you reasonable velocity with reasonable pressure with reasonable charge-weights (to maximize your loads-per-pound). My traditional favorite is SMP231 (St. Marks Powder 231), which is sold by Winchester as W231 and Hodgdon as HP38. It is a medium- to large-grit ball powder, and so flows very well through powder measures. I've loaded over 150 lbs of this powder in pistol calibers from 380 through 45ACP. I have loaded it in 44 Mag, but not for full-power loads. I load 7.5 to 8.0grs max with a 240gr lead bullet, which is way below book max. At 8.3grs the bullets break the sound barrier, and simultaneously recoil and muzzle blast become sharp (as sharp as full-loads of powder that go up three more grains). I feel that something bad is going on in there, so I limit my 44 loads to 7.5-8.0grs tops. If I need more velocity, I go to a slower powder. My biggest criticism of W231 is that it is a little dirty (more so with lead bullets). Now, it's not as dirty as some powders, but I'd say it's as dirty as Unique, when Unique is fired in a balanced load, which is to say, it will leave a few unburnt granules or particles of powder behind. It's also VERY smokey with soft-lubed boolits and still somewhat smokey with hard-lubed boolits. Jacketed still smokes some, but not as much. Shooting a match in a humid environment may make the range look a little like a civil war battlefield...

Fredj didn't say anything about his favorite powder at this load level... Kind of curious! WST is a ball powder that flows well, bulks well, shoots clean, and gives reasonable (but not top-end) velocities. It's not as spikey as BE/TG, but it can get there. Don't push it, and use it for target loads, and it has a wide application in these calibers. As soon as I go through my last 30 lbs of 231, I'll try some...

Unique is a great powder choice for what you're doing as well. It's not quite as efficient in terms of loads-per-pound as the others mentioned above, but it is very safe, with a broad range of load levels in every caliber. The only downsides to it are: It is a flake powder so doesn't flow quite as nice as the ball powders, and in an unbalanced load (where you're not loading it hot enough to get to good-combustion chamber pressures) it can be dirty.

There's a few others in there that are really good, but peruse any good burn-rate chart and you'll figure out the good ones. A couple especially nice (but too expensive for my tastes for burning this much ammo) are VV N325 and VVN330. When I was a commercial loader, their importer sent me samples, and this was the most amazingly clean powder I ever shot. My guns were actually cleaner after I shot a hundred rounds of these loads than before... (Which isn't saying much for my gun cleaning ethics. )


As far as a good warm-load powder for the 44 in the Ruger carbine - mine likes AA#9, but someone just mentioned H/IMR-4227, and that brought back memories of my loads with that powder. It is a fantastic 44 Mag powder - super accurate, top velocities (or nearly so), and low pressures. It can't be beat. I'd recommend you try some. One warning: I never shoot lead in my Ruger Carbine. It's gas system will get plugged up with lube and lead, and it's not something you want to get good at cleaning...

[Irascible]

Another vote for #5. I consider it Unique that works properly in a powder measure. My burning rate chart shows it slightly slower than Unique and so far it acts like it.
I use it in the 32 H&R (rifle), the 38 Spcl., 44 Spcl., and the 44 Mag. All with cast bullets and all about 1000 fps. I also use it in the 38 Spcl with Jacketed bullets at about the same velocity.

[Ugluk]

Vihtavouri N340 works very well in 9mm and 38spl, meters well och burns real clean and consistent.
I don't load 45acp, but according to the charts it should do well in that too.

VV is the most common handgun powder here, I guess we're a bit spoiled.

[Irascible]

V V is hard to come by around here. i have to mail order mine from Harts in Nescopek, PA

[UNIQUEDOT]

Acc #5 will do everything you want and will run like water through a powder measure.

[MBTcustom]

I am not too concerned with accuracy in those calibers, as much as I am in getting cheap ammo that will keep me shooting. Therefore, I wanted the fastest, cleanest burning powder I could use. I have gotten all that out of hodgdon clays, as well as fairly good accuracy, especially in .45ACP.