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Thread: HP'ing Your Own Mold without a Full Machine Shop

  1. #61
    Boolit Bub
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    Load info

    You guys just lost me.
    Are you saying that you would use the same amount of powder even though the weight of the bullet has changed? I had the understanding that you would load for a lighter bullet once you decreased the weight with the HP mod.

    And yes once again you guys have poisened my mind. I can't wait to get my mould in to the mill.

  2. #62
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangefinder View Post
    Squib--...Since my water jugs held milk previously, are you going to call me lactose-intolerant? LOL
    Nope, but you might be a plasticphobe!
    I like blowin' up stuff full of water. Beverage cans work pretty good.
    "Reactive targets" on the cheap.

    Boolit weight/powder charge...
    If you make a boolit lighter with a HP you COULD leave the charge the same,
    depending on how fast it gets to. Pressure would be reduced.
    Or go for economy, reduce the charge and have the same velocity, probably what
    I would do.
    Either way, HPs just look good!

  3. #63
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    Nope, but you might be a plasticphobe!
    I like blowin' up stuff full of water. Beverage cans work pretty good.
    "Reactive targets" on the cheap.

    Boolit weight/powder charge...
    If you make a boolit lighter with a HP you COULD leave the charge the same,
    depending on how fast it gets to. Pressure would be reduced.
    Or go for economy, reduce the charge and have the same velocity, probably what
    I would do.
    Either way, HPs just look good!
    Plasticphobe---I LIKE it!!
    Personally, I consider it "going Green"... I recycle those empty milk jugs into other more useful objects---targets!

    HOWEVER---to answer Trail Finder... Look through your load books. Lighter boolit can take heavier charge. Reason is less resistance due to less weight. Lighter boolit with same charge is less pressure. A stiffer charge is acceptable and thus allows for higher velocity under equal pressures. For "economy", go to a lighter charge with a faster powder, Red Dot is a good friend of mine... To clarify, going with the same charge as a solid for a HP modified is actually a reduced load for that boolit, and therefore considered "safe" practice. To load for a lighter boolit is actually increasing the charge according to book weight, but not according to boolit. Rule of thumb--start with the low and work up.

    Squib---HP's ROCK! And they look good, too! LOL
    Last edited by Rangefinder; 05-09-2012 at 03:12 AM.
    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

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  4. #64
    Boolit Master 40Super's Avatar
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    I don't know if I'm fully right on this or not but the heavier bullets are longer and generally seat deeper into the case, thus reducing case volume,thus increasing pressures. That is what I go by, the resistance is going to be the same(or very close)as the heavier because of the longer bearing surface. Thats just how I've always gone by, kind of like when a manuals load for a certain bullet is reduced when you have to seat it deeper than the manuals, due to chambering issues or short throat(just as an example), why because of less case volume,right?
    I do the normal work up so either way is ok.
    sent via hammer and chisel

    need oversized powder funnels , PTX's or expanders ? just ask, I make 'em for most brands plus my own styles.

  5. #65
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    Do we have a consensus on how to load a 340 grain hollow-pointed (and now say, 260-grain) boolit vs. a boolit that started life as a 260-grain boolit?

    Should powder charge be similar? I understand the caution about seating depth and potentially increased pressures due to that metric.

  6. #66
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    Without getting lengthy and off-topic, we're BOTH correct. We typically worry less with cast boolits as they tend to be lower pressure than jacketed in most cases anyway. To coincide with your argument (though I don't see us as arguing at all--rather making two valid points in parallel ), on cartridge I load for with jacketed is the FN5.7x28. I wish I had a buck for every time I heard .40S&W was a difficult, touchy cartridge to reload because I see it posted somewhere at least once a week. It's what I load the most of, it's what I experiment the most with, and it's an absolute dream to load for compared to the 5.7x28. For those unfamiliar, it spits a 40gr .224 out of a handgun platform upwards of 2000fps and pressures consistent with a rifle platform. In this tiny little cartridge, a seating depth change of .001 effects pressure by 200psi or more and, depending on the powder, a couple tenths of a grain is the difference between a functioning action and a trip to the ER.

    Personally, (with the exception of 5.7) seat to chamber, or seat to magazine, whichever is more applicable. In either case it is working in reverse of the pressure spike related to seating depth, as it tends to be much longer than a book listed OAL minimum. Of course, it also helps that we're using cast rather than jacketed, which all by itself reduces pressure because lead is much easier to push down the barrel. Though I wouldn't necessarily suggest everyone try it, but in the tests I've conducted, loading a lead bullet with a similar weight and profile as a listed jacketed bullet is typically a safe starting point when no load data for cast is available so long as the jacketed pressures listed for the load are consistent or below the max rating for the alloy you are using. The short version--a cast bullet loaded with jacketed data of same weight listing 26000psi and a velocity of 1100fps will generally yield upwards of 8-10% less on both pressure and velocity.

    Wow--what a ramble... Back on topic!

    Turned out the first pin profile yesterday. Should have some test loads and expansion results to post by the weekend!
    Last edited by Rangefinder; 05-09-2012 at 10:27 AM.
    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

    Where might I be found when I'm not here? Try looking here:http://www.facebook.com/NSWE.Pagosa and here: www.rescueropes.org

  7. #67
    Boolit Master Rangefinder's Avatar
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    jkpq45>> Sorry not to have responded on this sooner. The simple version--load it as the original 340gr to begin with and work up from there.
    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

    Where might I be found when I'm not here? Try looking here:http://www.facebook.com/NSWE.Pagosa and here: www.rescueropes.org

  8. #68
    Boolit Master 40Super's Avatar
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    Rangfinder: if you want some penta, hex ,or even square pin tips for your hp ,I run cnc's and can shape the ends. I'm going to be doing a 135gr NOE mould ,once my GB M-P gets here. I'm getting extra pins for that and should be able to machine (ya I know not by hand, But...) the NOE to accept them. I will be setting up anyway to shape those pins so it wouldn't take much to do a couple more.
    sent via hammer and chisel

    need oversized powder funnels , PTX's or expanders ? just ask, I make 'em for most brands plus my own styles.

  9. #69
    Boolit Master Rangefinder's Avatar
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    40>> we just may have to do some talking further about that! I'm liking the notion!
    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

    Where might I be found when I'm not here? Try looking here:http://www.facebook.com/NSWE.Pagosa and here: www.rescueropes.org

  10. #70
    Boolit Bub
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    What if you start with an allen wrench then take down the area that contacts the mold.

  11. #71
    Boolit Master Rangefinder's Avatar
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    The problem I can see with that is the size of the point needs to finish smaller than the shaft of the spud. Sonny has been tinkering with an idea similar to this though, looking at various hex and star drivers on a round shaft. Good possibilities there.

    All right--updates to progress. I INTENDED to go cast a few this morning so I could get them ready to test this weekend--then found out I'm out of propane. So I'll have to go get my bottle filled. In the meantime, here's what the mold looks like with the first pin.



    Kept it shallow--I'm estimating it should drop at about 140gr now. Shouldered the pin at the point to keep a clean nose and then double-radius to the point down to the base of the front drive band with the step at the crimp groove. I'm looking at this one to be a rapid expansion .38Spl boolit with low to moderate velocities. In a full .357 load it's gonna rip the whole nose off most likely. But as soon as I get my propane filled I'll see what happens.
    Last edited by Rangefinder; 05-10-2012 at 10:47 AM.
    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

    Where might I be found when I'm not here? Try looking here:http://www.facebook.com/NSWE.Pagosa and here: www.rescueropes.org

  12. #72
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangefinder View Post
    The problem I can see with that is the size of the point needs to finish smaller than the shaft of the spud. Sonny has been tinkering with an idea similar to this though, looking at various hex and star drivers on a round shaft. Good possibilities there.
    Maybe phillips screwdrivers of different sizes?

  13. #73
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by a.squibload View Post
    Maybe phillips screwdrivers of different sizes?
    I like that idea. I'm going mold shopping!

  14. #74
    Boolit Master Rangefinder's Avatar
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    Well, work has been trying to kill me lately, so time hasn't been something I have in excess. BUT, I finally got to cast a few with the new HP'd wadcutter. I'm kinda thinking these will expand a little... I set the pin a little deeper than originally planned so the cavity would reach the top of the second drive band and open the mouth a little more. These are the first four dropped, and I'm loving what I see. Water jug and wet-pack test coming soon!

    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

    Where might I be found when I'm not here? Try looking here:http://www.facebook.com/NSWE.Pagosa and here: www.rescueropes.org

  15. #75
    Boolit Master 40Super's Avatar
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    with those thin walls , I would think not much is going to be gained because it'll just flake off,the deeper V part should work .
    sent via hammer and chisel

    need oversized powder funnels , PTX's or expanders ? just ask, I make 'em for most brands plus my own styles.

  16. #76
    Boolit Master Rangefinder's Avatar
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    Threw together two quick test loads this morning--a bottom-end .357 load and a full-house load. Got interesting results! The bottom-end load blew the nose all to pieces and left the base half to penetrate three jugs--the first of which was confetti. But the full-house load peeled the nose into a doughnut, sheared it in the first jug, left it in the bottom of the second jug (which was shredded as well), and then continued to penetrate another jug for a total of three before coning to rest 3/4 through a 2x4 backer board. The full-house nose sheared in a near-perfect ring intact. Photos coming--just have to get to work now.
    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

    Where might I be found when I'm not here? Try looking here:http://www.facebook.com/NSWE.Pagosa and here: www.rescueropes.org

  17. #77
    Boolit Master
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    Those look good. Kinda like little beer kegs!
    Nice fillout.

  18. #78
    Boolit Master Rangefinder's Avatar
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    Tapping them is the fun part... LOL
    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

    Where might I be found when I'm not here? Try looking here:http://www.facebook.com/NSWE.Pagosa and here: www.rescueropes.org

  19. #79
    Boolit Master Rangefinder's Avatar
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    New pin design and an alloy change yielded promising results.

    The new pin is smaller in diameter and set deeper with a long taper and only radiused at the bottom of the cavity with a step at the crimp groove. I changed the alloy to a straight 15-1 (with whatever trace antimony hides in stick-ons), and drove these at about 1100fps into wet-packs. Both penetrated to 5 1/2 to just shy of 6", retained much of their nose portion, and expanded very well. I think my 2-legged varmint boolit is just about dialed in. Just FYI, the pin "looks" off-center because I had to hold it open on-angle to get it in the photo. It IS centered, just tipped back to see the cavity without the other half of the block getting in the way.



    For comparative, here's the original pin design and depth setting.

    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

    Where might I be found when I'm not here? Try looking here:http://www.facebook.com/NSWE.Pagosa and here: www.rescueropes.org

  20. #80
    Boolit Master Rangefinder's Avatar
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    Here's the latest addition to the HP Mod thread--have to say I'm pretty happy with it. It's a Lyman 358432 done for another member here. Now I'm kinda thinking I might just have to get one for myself. It turned out SO much nicer than the Lee WC I'm playing with (posted above).

    Guns have only two real enemies; Rust and Politicians...

    "Praying might get you to heaven, but trespassing will expedite the journey..."

    Where might I be found when I'm not here? Try looking here:http://www.facebook.com/NSWE.Pagosa and here: www.rescueropes.org

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check