Designing a Heavy .303 Bullet

[X-man]

I'm looking at getting Dan at Mountain Molds to make me a new heavy .303 British mould. I was hoping to get around a 220gr bullet from straight WW. Looking for a big/flat or rounded nose/meplat. Any input would be welcome. I've got to swag my multiple Lee-Enfields to get the "average" bore diameter, so I can get the mould cut that will cast the correct size for the most rifles. Will probably go with either 2 or 3 cavity iron blocks. Please feel free to jump in here.

[Bass Ackward]

I'm looking at getting Dan at Mountain Molds to make me a new heavy .303 British mould. I was hoping to get around a 220gr bullet from straight WW. Looking for a big/flat or rounded nose/meplat. Any input would be welcome. I've got to swag my multiple Lee-Enfields to get the "average" bore diameter, so I can get the mould cut that will cast the correct size for the most rifles. Will probably go with either 2 or 3 cavity iron blocks. Please feel free to jump in here.

X-man,

Some comments I will make.

Leave yourself some leway with weight so that you can use the bullet in varrying throat lengths. So you can seat deeper or not without entering the case.

Get you mold made at least .001 over your largest wanted diameter. You can size down to fit verything else if you do.

Use multiple lube groove or a Lovern design so you can vary your seating depth and get the longest bullet with the least weight.

Do not exceed 60% on your meppy. This is the most contraversial point, but between feeding and stabilization, that's my limit for rifles.

Last, when you think you have the design you want, save your figures and set them aside. Forget about it for one week and then go design another one. Save those figures. Repeat this for a total of 4 weeks and then compare all the designs and if you get two that look close, that is probably what you want. If not, then take what you like from each and make a final design before you buy.

[JBMauser]

this article cites the LBT's .313-180 Long Flat Nose bullet as a very accurate design. perhaps you can use this as a guide. http://www.303british.com/ see cast bullet data. Perhaps ther data will give you some insight. JB

[Buckshot]

..........Are these 2 groove barrels?

..........Buckshot

[X-man]

The only 2 groove Lee-Enfield I have is my Longbranch (best Lee-Enfield made by the way) the others aren't. I'll try playing around with the on-line design engine. I don't have any hard and fast design parameters in mind, was looking toward a Loverin style, just wanted a heavy bullet...the heaviest I can get within reason, without sacrificing too much in other areas. Want to try this combo on Caribou and maybe Moose.

[BruceB]

Gents;

I believe that when we get down to .30-caliber cast bullets and big critters like moose, a delicate balancing act is required. Remember Shuz' experience of last year (?) with hard cast bullets on a moose...they behaved like jacketed solids and took considerable time and several rounds to finally kill the animal. There's no doubt that putting a .31 hole through a moose's vitals WILL kill it, but I much prefer to have the animal die immediately rather than later. Mind you, from personal experience, moose often don't seem to react to bullets all that much and sometimes just continue whatever they're doing until the blood supply runs out.... not "suffering", in other words. I still want to break them down where they stand, if at all possible.

I have the Lee-custom Bator-designed 316-220 mould, and to date haven't seen much accuracy in my tests with it in a brand-new 1955 #4 Enfield. There may be hope though, because there's still a lot of unturned ground.

My take on hunting with cast bullets, as I expounded to Curmudgeon on his visit last weekend, is that as far as I'm concerned I'm back to playing by black-powder "rules". Velocity is just about a given at 2000 fps or so regardless of cartridge or bullet, and for more effectiveness it becomes a project to maximise bullet weight and to use expandable alloys at that speed.

The following is PERSONAL OPINION from one with a few decent rifles to choose from, and is not intended to put down anyone else's opinions or guns.

So..... with .30 caliber, I'd go no larger than deer-size animals, and frankly would prefer leaving the .30 in the closet.

I think for MY puposes, cast-boolit big game hunting rounds start at .338 diameter. In .338 my mould weight range goes from 200 grains to almost 300....getting to where I can expect some performance on game, I'd say. Anything larger than deer becomes the province of my .416/.404 rifles, and any North American animal that can shrug off 365 grains of lead at over 2000 fps is a critter I'd like to see...but there's still a balancing act to find an alloy which is soft enough for both decent expansion and weight retention, while retaining the integrity needed for in-the-barrel performance. (The .404 Jeffery made its sterling AFRICAN-hunting reputation on buff and elephant with 400 grains at 2150 fps.) At 2000 fps, straight un-hardened wheelweight alloy is looking pretty good right now, but if my .416 or .404 go hunting this fall they'll most likely be shooting a 50/50 WW-to-lead alloy. The Rigby fired pure-lead at 2000+ without leading in a test a few months ago....

The .45-70 and its compadres have a long illustrious history as cast-bullet gamekillers and need no help from me. I'd take my Shiloh .45-70 after ANYTHING outside of Africa with a tranquil heart, and Shiloh has publically stated that their rifles will tolerate anything that a Ruger #1 can take so the same 2000 fps can likely be used....except for the POINTED steel buttplate.....oooowwwww!

Again, these are MY choices, from among MY available rifles, but by choosing to regard them as similar in concept and effect to BP rounds of a century or more back, there's not much chance of going astray, IMO. More effectiveness = bigger boolits. Maybe it's a simplistic and "overkill" attitude, but KISS works for me, and I'd rather err to the "heavy" side rather than the possibly-marginal sector. The .35 Whelen sure looks good to me as an all-round cast-boolit hunting cartridge, right now. A nice .375 H&H would work fine as well. I've never owned either caliber, but I'd sho' be pleased to try them.

[Willbird]

On the 375, I have a post 64 model 70 that was my dad's, he insisted there were two rifles/ctg. that he had worked with that would not lead no matter how fast you pushed the bullets, one was my model 43 22 hornet, and the other was that 375, he said the 375 was an example of a caliber that gave up NOTHING in the horsepower dept when loaded with cast bullets (old school casting and loading methods)

we will see late this summer...................the 375 seems to be quite good at putting 100 grains or more bullet weight on target with the same trajectory as a 30-06.

it is a fun rifle to shoot. from way back in the day it has a K4 steel tube weaver with a decent sized post reticle in it.


Bill

[NVcurmudgeon]

Yeah, what BruceB said. It is well to remember that a .30/06 or .303 with typical cast bullet loads is essentially a .32 Special with bullets that are questionable in expansion. Not my idea of a moose rifle, or for that matter a deer rifle. Come October, I expect to be packing a .35 Whelen loaded with 250 gr. Nosler Partitions in Mr. Wapiti's country. Why? Because that's the best bullet I know about, and the game deserves humane treatment. Also, I don't want to louse up my memories of the hunt of a lifetime with a load of guilt.

[Bullshop]

The only 2 groove Lee-Enfield I have is my Longbranch (best Lee-Enfield made by the way) the others aren't. I'll try playing around with the on-line design engine. I don't have any hard and fast design parameters in mind, was looking toward a Loverin style, just wanted a heavy bullet...the heaviest I can get within reason, without sacrificing too much in other areas. Want to try this combo on Caribou and maybe Moose.

X-Man
My #1 pick for first try success is the LBT/LFN design. It has been the most consistantly accurate design for a heavy for caliber boolit I have tried regardless of caliber. I have this design in several calibers because I was so impressed with the first one. My 30 cal will drop at just a bit over 200gn in W/W but might not be large enough in diameter for your 303. If I were to have one made just for a 303 this is what it would be. Watch the weight/length though as this design has a throat filling ogive and requires deep seating. Could send a sample for design purposes if you like.
BIC/BS

[w30wcf]

X-man,

Bullets from my Lyman mold for the 314299 bullet weight 208 grs. in w.w. + 2% tin w/gas check. As you probably know, this bullet was specifically designed for the .303.

The bore ride diameter is .304" and the driving bands are .315".

It is a great shooting long range bullet and arrrives with plenty of punch to knockdown the 55# steel ram @ 500 meters.

w30wcf

[KCSO]

Another consideration you will have in a #4 Enfield is that the gun was designed to feed a spire point bullet and with a full mag they sometimes choke on flat points. I have a 220 grain bullet that Dan made up for me as a hunting bullet for an Argie and it shoots very well in my 303's. The problem is that if I load more than about 5 it gets hard to feed. By contrast I have a 200 grain round nose from a lapped and tinkered Lee mold that shoots almost as good and feeds perfect. If you want to try some of my 220's give me your address and I will send yo a few to try.