Finding primer holes in the target

[buck1]

I have been shooting my .44 from .40 swaged boolits for quite some time now and have been 100% happy and still am.
But I have recently began finding what looks like .22 ish cal holes in my target.
These are virgin targets shot only with the .44 mag.
The only reason I can come up with is the primers are leaving the .40 brass at some point. The boolits are shootong groups that would make anyone proud.
Has anyone else ran in to this? Any Ideas? Thanks guys....Buck

[BT Sniper]

Yep it happens some times. A few of us have noticed the primmer projectiles while shooting the 40s from 9mm but this is the first I have heard of it with the 44s from 40s. It was the opinion of those and myself that no harm could come of this. Myself and anouther shooter here shooting teh 40s in comp get a pretty good laugh when the extra hole shows up in our targets and the others don't know what to make of it.

On a side note I did take out the screan of my crony with the 3 grain primmer while testing the 40cal bullets from 9mm. I had to laugh

I say good shooting and swage on with confidence!

BT

[buck1]

Thanks buddy! I wasnt too worried but wanted to make sure I wasnt missing something....Buck

[sargenv]

I tried to argue a better hit but really could not since dual projectile loads are prohibited

[BT Sniper]

I have only had two primmer hits that I know of, one was in a IDPA shoot and that was the best, looking at the confused faces of the score keepers. Sarge there was the other one I was thinking about. Have you noticed very many of these primmers sarge?

BT

[waksupi]

This is a new one on me. Primers hitting the target? Do you mean they are blowing through the primer pocket? The primers are missing from the brass? How can this happen? If it was, I would sure get rid of that particular firearm and chambering!

[felix]

As I see it, Ric, the depriming operation allows primers to fly off into a bucket with cases on the floor, never to be found again. They appear on the target as projectiles. Using auto loading machines from the start of resizing to the final round will definitely keep the primers out of sight. ... felix

[Bill*]

He means they're coming free from the swaged boolit case (not the cartridge) I think

[BT Sniper]

He means they're coming free from the swaged boolit case (not the cartridge) I think

Yep! Our swaged bullets made from fired pistol brass is made with the spent primmer still in place in the base of the now newly formed bullet. At some point between ignition and the bullet hitting the target the primmer becomes dislodged from the base of the bullet and becomes a second projectile (though only 3 grains at around 1K FPS you do the math ) while only firing one round. I think it is kind of cool but I only know of 4 or 5 cases of this actually happening.

Swage On!

BT

[BT Sniper]

A couple pics. Thought I actually had a pic of my broke readout on my crony from being hit with the primmer but I'll have to find it later I guess.

BT

[Mountain Prepper]

Yep! Our swaged bullets made from fired pistol brass is made with the spent primmer still in place in the base of the now newly formed bullet. At some point between ignition and the bullet hitting the target the primmer becomes dislodged from the base of the bullet and becomes a second projectile (though only 3 grains at around 1K FPS you do the math ) while only firing one round. I think it is kind of cool but I only know of 4 or 5 cases of this actually happening.

Swage On!

BT

How does it work if you remove the primer (as in reloading dies to decap first) and then swage with the small (likely insignificant) hole in the case?

[ReloaderFred]

It depends on how you prep it for swaging. If you deprime and anneal with the core in place, the molten lead will run through the flash hole. As long as the brass is setting on a solid surface, the lead will just fill the primer pocket and look basically like in unfired primer. If it's not, you'll lose some of your core, if not most of it.

If the core is seated after annealing, then it will depend on how much pressure is applied in the final swaging. A small amount of lead will squirt through the flash hole, but I imagine that if enough pressure were applied, it would nearly fill it.

I prefer to swage my brass with the primer in place, with the primer as part of the total weight of the bullet. I don't size my brass prior to annealing, so there aren't any additional steps I have to take in regards the primer.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[b2riesel]

I've made ~16,000 .40 S&W from 9mm...of those...over 10,000 were with brass that had the primer removed. It is very very difficult to squeeze lead thru the flash hole. I've seen only 1 or 2 in all the thousands that had even the smallest of squirts into the flash hole at all.

My supplier of 9mm brass does a resize, deprime, and very nice tumble of the brass for $25 for 1,000...and I pick it up so no shipping. I ran out of range pickups a long time ago...heh. I asked what the price would be on unprocessed brass...and he said....$25 for 1k....so I just go with the brass...that way I don't have to clean it much after an anneal.

[ReloaderFred]

The few I did without the primer in place making .44 bullets from .40 brass, I just got a small "tail" protruding through the flash hole. I was thinking that if they were done on a Corbin hydraulic press, or something similar, there would be enough pressure to probably fill the primer pocket, but not with most hand presses.

Fred

[buck1]

I prefer to swage with the primer in for a sealed base. Others shoot boolits with a partly opened base. I just dont feel right in doing that .(if you do thats fine its just not for me).

I belive I may have figured it out but am not sure.
When I fire a primed boolit made from a .40 case it concaves the primer but does not puncture it. I belive if the primer concaves enugh it may pull away from the sides of the primer pocket and then be held in place only by the pressure of the burning charge.
After the boolit leaves the bbl and it looses the pressure from the base the now loose primer slows faster than the rest of the boolit and falls away.

If thats right all is well as the primer cant leave the boolit untill the boolit leaves the bbl.
Thats the only thing I can come up with....Buck

[shooterg]

A lot of the used brass we swage with has been shot mucho many times and may not be grabbing the spent primer so tight anyway, although you'd think squeezing 'em in the die would tighten 'em up...

[sargenv]

Have you noticed very many of these primmers sarge?

I've noticed it on a few occasions.. right now I am shooting my cast stuff since it's Revo season for me. I think I noticed it on paper a couple of times in a few thousand rounds.. I was annealing the brass before and I believe all of the primer separations were with brass that had been annealed. My newer batch of bullets is using un-annealled brass, so when I start shooting my other 40 cal gun I'll be able to give a more definitive answer. I can't wait to shoot my limited gun in a major match and the look that'll be on the chrono man's face when he pulls the bullet

[BT Sniper]

I can't wait to shoot my limited gun in a major match and the look that'll be on the chrono man's face when he pulls the bullet

Keep us posted on stories like that. Always good for a laugh

BT

[mold maker]

So far I haven't seen this happen. I have only recovered a few of the .44 bullets swaged from annealed .40 brass.
Is it possible that the phisics of metal movement in this swaging proscess allows it to follow the path of least resistance, outward into the void in the die? The presence of the primer offers resistance and metal flows actually away from the pocket.
We're splitting hairs here, but could this explain it? A couple .0001 might make the difference.

[7of7]

This is a new one on me. Primers hitting the target? Do you mean they are blowing through the primer pocket? The primers are missing from the brass? How can this happen? If it was, I would sure get rid of that particular firearm and chambering!

I agree, he needs to send the firearm directly to me for further evaluation of this condition. Also need the dies so I can continue to evaluate it...LOL