wrinkled bullets

[perimedik]

bear with me guys it was literally my first cast.

Ingots were dropped and melted 10lb in the Lee Production pot with 8oz of 50/50 tin bar solder. It flowed well.

My bullets were wrinkled. Upon futher reseacrh the mold was not hot enough (Lee C309150F). It sat it in the pot on the edge with it partially submerged until no alloy stuck. I'll double the time next go around


they weighed 155 grains on average

[Tatume]

As many bullets as you cast, your Lee mold should have gotten plenty hot. Lee molds are small blocks of aluminum, and heat up quickly. I suspect your pot is set at too low a temperature.

[Gtek]

+1 on POT- What was pot temp? Try at 700, every alloy/mold combo wants something a little diff. Base line and confirm pot temp and adjust tempo reading bullets. Go hard to get frosty then pull back. I have better results on hot end, drop them back in and go again. Sorry- you cannot buy experience. Document all your travels, temp, alloy etc., trust me it is worth it. First run looks great, you are soooooo close. Gtek

[onesonek]

How many pours are you getting in a minute? How many counts does it take for the sprue to freeze? From what I have learned, if the mold is clean, shiney wrinkled boolits = cool mold temp.. Try picking up your pace. At this point with the info given, I'm not so sure the pot temp is the issue.

[462]

Clean the mould, again, and do a short casting session. Many times, moulds need two or three cleaning and casting sessions before all the machining fluid is removed.

Once the mould is completely clean and has been pre-heated, your first drop should produce keepers. Then, as others mentioned, pick up your casting pace.

Read the Leementing sticky, which has to do with Lee mould preparation, and disregard Lee's instructions.

[perimedik]

Still need a lead thermometer (I know - I know)
My lee pot was set to 7 (flowed fine and fluxed well)
I was waiting for the frost counting to 6-8 seconds then tapping the sprue plate.
I tried pooring slower (handle throw) with the pot, closer to the opening, further away, all different techniques. My rhythm was slow (getting the hang of things).

They'll all go back in the pot (same alloy) and melt at a higher temp and keep the mold hotter.
I followed all teh prep work, cleaned the mold, smoked it etc, sat it in the pot.

I agree I feel soooooo close. learning curve I guess.

[cbrick]

Stop inspecting your bullets between casts. Aluminum disipates heat very rapidly, you'll never get it up to proper casting temp while looking at your bullets with the mold blocks open & empty.

Very doubtfull that pot temp is the issue, a too cool mold is your culprit. Cast faster, as quickly as practicle once the bullets drop close the mold & refill, keep this pace until the bullets start to get frosty. Look at your bullets when your finished casting.

Rick

[Gtek]

Wrinkled = Cold, Frosted = Hot. Yes you do need thermo! I am not a fan of alloy molds. Just for giggles and while waitng for thermo to show up on brown truck, try something. Learning curve -
Kick pot up a notch or two, start with stone cold mold and go watching drops change as mold comes up to temp. I assume you are ladle pouring. are you leaving in melt between pours? If you are laying aside it is already cooling you off before you even get to mold. Gtek

[onesonek]

"They'll all go back in the pot (same alloy) and melt at a higher temp and keep the mold hotter."

I too doubt as cbrick, that pot temp is the issue, other than,,,,,
Seems to me your pot temp is plenty high with a 6-8 second sprue, specially so with a cold mold/sprue plate. I'm far from being a master caster, but cutting with a gloved hand soon as the sprue center dulls at about 3 count on a 650-670 pot, at around 4 + pour per min. avg. (depending on the mold's wants). But your mold needs to be dropping consistantly to keep a steady pace. That may take some break-in sessions and lementing, as mentioned. Cast faster,,, it'll come around for you, as it did for me!

[cbrick]

perimedik, don't let your first casting session discourage you. Your first bullets look just about exactly like my first casting sessions did about 30 years ago. They also look just like my first several pours today when I didn't get the mold properly pre-heated.

Keep at it, it is a learning curve. Keep in mind that MOLD temp is the key, not pot temp. 700 degree pot temp will very easily get your mold up to proper casting temp and will be much easier on your alloy than higher alloy temps.

Rick

[Shiloh]

Clean the alloy if not already done.

As stated, run a hotter mold and melt.
When I get wrinkled boolits, it is because things are not up to where they need to be.
I used to be leery of running to hot. WHen the boolits get frosty, it is too hot. Up until they get frosty is where I get great boolits

Shiloh

[geargnasher]

perimedik, don't let your first casting session discourage you. Your first bullets look just about exactly like my first casting sessions did about 30 years ago. They also look just like my first several pours today when I didn't get the mold properly pre-heated.

Keep at it, it is a learning curve. Keep in mind that MOLD temp is the key, not pot temp. 700 degree pot temp will very easily get your mold up to proper casting temp and will be much easier on your alloy than higher alloy temps.

Rick

Tanks, Rick! You knew I was going to come along and say it anyway, didn't you?

Perimedik, do what Rick advises. DON'T overheat your alloy, there's a long explanation on why not to, but trust us for now that 700 degrees is more than enough with your alloy. The advice is often given to "crank up the pot temp" when poor fillout or wrinkles are being experienced, this is merely a poor band-aid for casting too slow and not getting/keeping your mould hot enough. Those that still advise turning up the heat for better fillout might benefit from reading mine and Rick's posts. If it's hot enough to come out of the bottom of the pot, it's hot enough to cast.

Pot temperature should be maintained at a point that is best for the alloy, the rest is up to mould temperature, which is maintained by casting pace, the number of times per minute you pour hot lead into it.

Let me give you a target: Get a cheap analog wall clock with a second hand. Put it somewhere you can see it easily, preheat your mould and start casting. Glance at the clock and time yourself on each pour, to get the mould up to temp initially, cast at FOUR POURS A MINUTE until they start looking like you like them, then slow down a bit to level-out the mould temp.

The temperature that's best for the alloy is usually about 100 degrees over the point that it's fully liquid and just out of the slush or mush phase.

The temperature that's best for the mould is the temperature at which it casts the best boolits, and this varies greatly with mould design, boolit design, number of cavities, mould material, sprue plate thickness, alloy temperature and composition, and the weather. Yes, the weather. Humidity, temperature, and draft conditions all affect the pouring pace and resulting mould block temperature that works best for your particular mould on any given day.

Base fillout is controlled by sprue plate temperature, mould venting, and pour technique. Sprue plate temperature is easily controlled by the size of the sprue puddle you pour on top of the plate after the cavity and well is filled. Anywhere from a dime-sized to quarter sized puddle is about right, if the plate is too cool (rounded bases) make a bigger puddle for a while until it gets sharp. Venting of the bases has to do with sprue plate tension, and pour technique. If you'll tilt the mould toward you, tipping the handles down about ten degrees or so, and drop the stream into the hole at the far left or right edge of the hole (but center front-to-back) it will create a mini-vortex in the mould, swirling the alloy around as it fills which helps push air out of the driving band areas and helps keep bubbles/voids from forming in the bases.

Hope this helps some,

Gear

[perimedik]

Thanks again guys
CBrick-not discouraged, also not checking after each cast. Just trying to find a groove.
I think the temp of the lead is fine it is the mould temp that is the issue.

When asked about the lightbulb.
"I didn't fail 1000 times, I just learned 1000 ways NOT to make a lightbulb" - Edison

I'll keep trying this week when I find some time. I'll keep you posted.

[Dean D.]

One thing that was touched upon lightly already is not alowing your mould to stay open or empty any longer than necessary. I try to close up my mould as quickly as possible to reduce the chance of it cooling off too much. Sometimes I'll cut a sprue and leave the boolit in the mould to help hold the heat if I need to feed the pot or anything else that disrupts the pace.

Your off to a good start, all the reading in the world will not make you a master caster, only time spent casting will do that Keep at it, you'll get there!

[leadman]

Also do not be afraid of frosted boolits. If you read the instructions with your Lee mold it will even say frosting is desirable, especially if you use their tumble lube.
Dip the mold in the melt like you did to get it up to temp. If you still have trouble with wrinkled boolits let the mold cool and clean it again. Might want to do this anyway.
I have had a couple Lee molds that kept producing wrinkled boolits no matter what I did. I finally dipped them in the pot until they were smoking, then poured lead into the mold. Took awhile for the sprue to harden, but after that they cast good boolits. Do this as a last resort.

Keep at it as you have a good start.

[Gswain]

Read the thread about mold fillout problems that I started in this forum, you can read it and say "gee, this sure sounds familiar" lol.

[acemedic13]

We've all been here. Clean-heat-pour-enjoy......Repeat process

[joedude]

If you'll tilt the mould toward you, tipping the handles down about ten degrees or so, and drop the stream into the hole at the far left or right edge of the hole (but center front-to-back) it will create a mini-vortex in the mould, swirling the alloy around as it fills which helps push air out of the driving band areas and helps keep bubbles/voids from forming in the bases.

Hope this helps some,

Gear

That's Brilliant! I look forward to trying that technique... Thanks for sharing.

[patsher]

And the thing I've found most helpful to keep up the mould temperature is to preheat them on a HOTPLATE!

Turn on the hotplate at the same time you turn on the lead pot. Turn it about 3/4 of the way to high, leave your mould with the blocks as flat on the hotplate as you can get them. (I rest the handles on a chunk of 2x4 to keep the blocks in full contact with the hotplate surface). Then when the lead is ready to cast, your mould is ready, too. Cast a few and check the boolits. If they're still wrinkled, turn the hotplate temp up a little, and keep doing so until you get good boolits.

This was advice I learned from somewhere on this forum, and it's made my casting a lot more fun since then!

Have fun!

Pat

[montana_charlie]

Seems to me your pot temp is plenty high with a 6-8 second sprue, specially so with a cold mold/sprue plate.!

I believe he meant that 6-8 seconds after the sprue frosts, he turns the sprue plate ... not that it takes 6-8 seconds for the sprue to freeze.