Unique for 91/30?

[slim1836]

I am wanting to try Unique powder for my 1943 Mosin Nagant but my Lyman 4th edition does not show a load for it. Has anyone tried Unique and what was the outcome?

The Lyman 4th edition showed the most accurate powder was XMP 5477 which I tried in the M/N and had very poor results, some shots off paper at 50 yards. I was using the Lyman 314299 boolits using 45/45/10 lube and my bore had slugged at 312. No fillers were used.

I tried XMP 5477 in my Tikka .308 (with Lee 309, 160 grain boolit) and had poor results also, however had some good groups with Unique. The Lyman 4th edition had also listed XMP 5477 as the most accurate powder for the .308.

My goal is to use one powder for both weapons if possible.

I appreciate any and all feedback.

Slim

[Ben]

Try your same bullet with 11.5 grs. of Unique and no filler.
How are you prepping the neck of the case for the cast bullet ? ( in other words..... what mechanism are you using to put a slight flare on the case neck ? )
Is your cast bullet .002" over the dia. of the slug that came out of the barrel ?

Report back.

Ben

[slim1836]

Ben,

The barrel slugs at .312, I run the bullet through a Lee .314 sizer in order to attach the gas check, and flare the mouth of the cases with a Lee Universal Case Expanding Die.

[Ben]

I'm not there with you and I have no way of knowing if this is happening with your loads or not, BUT........The Lee Universal flare die may not be the best option for you. It is true that it puts a nice flare on the neck, but that's about it !

The flare is shallow and it does absolutely nothing for prepping the remainder of the neck for the cast bullet. That is where the Lyman 31 caliber M die shines. It opens up the remainder of the neck to the proper dia in preparation for the seating of your .314 " cast bullet. Most rifle reloading dies don't have the proper dia. expander plug for cast bullets.

Occasionally , the inside neck dia. of the case will be so small that your .314 " cast bullet will end up being sized down ( possibly .001 or .002 " ) by the very tight inside dia. of your case necks.

It is hard to beat a Lyman M die when it comes to loading cast bullets in the necks of cases with cast bullets ( for both pistol and rifle rounds ) .

Ben

[slim1836]

Ben,

I use the Lee 7.62x54R die set (full length size) along with the .312 decapping/expanding unit part # SE2358 when sizing my casings. I have seen no evidence of deforming of the boolits but I will seat and pull one again to be sure. This I will do tomorrow.

Slim

[Ben]

Might be a waste of time, but at least if you seat one at .314 " and then pull it and mic it again . If indeed it still mics at .314" , as you search for a reason for poor accuracy you can at least rule out this one variable and know that tight necks are not the reason for the poor accuracy.

Ben

[JIMinPHX]

I've used between 11 & 14 grains of Unique behind a 155 grain Harris boolit sized to 5/16" (.3125) in a MN with good (not great) results at about 1400-1600fps. The groves mic'd at .312". The bore condition was fair to maybe good.

[slim1836]

Ben,

Seated a boolit and pulled it just now. There was perhaps .0005" difference in a couple of areas on the bands. I don't think it's enough to make a difference.

I'll try loads between 11-13 gr. of Unique and see if groups beat the performance of the XMP 5744.

Guess this will be a work in progress, trying to eliminate one thing at a time. Good excuse to go to the range.

Slim

[Ben]

trying to eliminate one thing at a time

Yes, that is the name of the game..........

You're right, .0005" isn't enough to affect much of anything.

Yes, shoot the Unique and report back. I'm betting that you'll
see a huge difference in your groups.

Ben

[leadman]

Your overall length of the cartridge can make a big difference in accuracy. Usually if you slightly engrave the nose of the boolit in the rifling this will give you the best accuracy. This works good for target shooting. For hunting you want the boolit to be just off the rifling so it does not get pulled from the case if you unload the gun without firing it.
I assume you are using gas checked boolits?

[slim1836]

Leadman,

Yes, I am using gas checks. I also am seating the boolit long as to touch or almost engage the rifling. I believe the OAL was 2.68" but I can't swear by it. The casing went just past the first ring of the gas check.

I guess what I need to know is what range of Unique powder is considered safe to experimate with as I have no load data to go by. My boolit mold is the Lyman 314299 which has been casting around 215 grains using air cooled wheel weights.

Slim

[sixpointfive]

14 gr unique gave me 1625 fps and less than 2"groups at 50 yds. I ran the Lee 160 tl bullet sized .313 with aluminum gas check and lubed with ALOX, cast from ww

[Larry Gibson]

slim

"The Lyman 4th edition had also listed XMP 5477 as the most accurate powder for the .308."

Read the fine print in Lyman's #4 and you'll find they don't shoot the test loads for accuracy (groups at any range) any longer. Lyman uses the internal ballistic data to determine what "should/might" be a potentially accurate load. If you were using any more than 22-23 gr 5744 with that 314299 bullet (with AC'd WWs and proper lube) you were driving it to fast. Hate to bring it up again but any charge over that is going to push that bullet/powder combination over the RPM threshold.

Lyman #4 actually shows 21.5 gr 4198 as the "accuracy" load for that 314299 bullet at 1626 fps which is under the RPM threshold and probably a good bet for accuracy. The listed top end 5744 load of 32 gr at 2163 fps is not a good bet at all, for accuracy anyways.

I suggest you try 4895 with a 1/2 gr dacron filler. Start at 28 gr and work up to 32 gr in 1/2 gr increments. I'll bet you find some really good accuracy in the 1750 - 1850 fps range.

Larry Gibson

[HARRYMPOPE]

the RCBS flaring die from their 32 Long/mag or 32 ACP set works well for .314 bullets.
The 12g of Unique load and the lee Harris 155 is a great recipe often close to MOA for 10 shots in a good (scoped) Mosin at 100 yards.

George

[argie1891]

harry pope you can use about 12 gr. of unique with that bullet and shoot good groups with most 30 caliber cases 308 and up in size. argie1891

[slim1836]

Larry,

Thanks for the advice, I'll load some up according to your direction and give it a try. Hate to have 3/4 of a pound of 5477 doing nothing.

Still going to try the Unique though. Any suggestions on load range for this powder?

Slim

[sixpointfive]

5744 is no longer a bargain, I have switched to 2400 in my 1903-a3, 8mm mauuser and so on. with equal accuracy.

[Shooter]

I have good results with 14 Gr. of Unique and the 314299 in my M44.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

Thanks for the advice, I'll load some up according to your direction and give it a try. Hate to have 3/4 of a pound of 5477 doing nothing.

Still going to try the Unique though. Any suggestions on load range for this powder?

Slim

The 11 - 13 gr of Unique you were thinking on should be good. Looks like shooter does well with 14 gr so maybe work up to that.

Larry Gibson

[slim1836]

Larry, Ben, & others,

Thanks for the replies, I've got enough variables to try out for the time being.

Larry, is the 4895 you mentioned by IMR? If so, I've got some of that also. I will also try using the dacron filler as my dogs tear up their stuffed animals on a regular basis and that filler is dacron. Also, would you suggest using filler with the 5477?

Thanks again,

Slim