Titan ReloadingLee PrecisionStainLess Steel MediaBallisti-Cast
MidSouth Shooters SupplyGraf & SonsInline FabricationRotoMetals2
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: 7.7 Jap., which brand of 30-06 brass?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    wallenba's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    S. E. Michigan
    Posts
    3,595

    7.7 Jap., which brand of 30-06 brass?

    I need to make some 7.7 Japanese cases from 30-06. I shoot .314 sized cast 185 grainers. Before I order brass, which brand has shown the best results with case thickness after forming? I'd really like to avoid neck turning as my previous attempts at it were dismal.
    Dutch

    "The future ain't what it used to be".
    -Yogi Berra.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    301
    If I were to order brand new brass today for my Type 99, and Graf's 7.7mm was still out of stock, I would order some of their 8mm Mauser brass. Less trimming, and your new neck wont be part of the old shoulder.

    http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...roductId/12659

    But its up to you.. I have lots of range salvage 30-06, I'm sure some of it would have to be inside neck reamed to work right for the 7.7x58mm.

    Huningtons shows some, don't know if they have any left in stock.

    http://www.huntingtons.com/cases_graf.html

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    wallenba's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    S. E. Michigan
    Posts
    3,595
    [QUOTE=junkbug;1342039]If I were to order brand new brass today for my Type 99, and Graf's 7.7mm was still out of stock, I would order some of their 8mm Mauser brass. Less trimming, and your new neck wont be part of the old shoulder.

    That's the problem I'm getting with range brass, a little "love handle" on the neck. I have 8mm Mauser but I need them for my K98. I'll go look at the Graf's stuff.
    Dutch

    "The future ain't what it used to be".
    -Yogi Berra.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    East Arkansas
    Posts
    358
    Midway shows they have 7.7 in stock. Kinda pricey but I would go with the real thing.

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub Surplus Shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Upstate,New york
    Posts
    20
    Any decent quality brass would work.
    My gun collection - 1943 russian m91/30, 1953 polish m44 mosin nagant , 1915 swedish m96 mauser, 1916 m95 styer stuzan carbine, 1942 australin no.1 mkIII lee enfield, 1994 wasr 10/63 akm, 1968 chinese type 56 sks, browning medallion .270, mossberg 500 persauder, and a henry golden boy .22.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Sacto., Ca.
    Posts
    1,563
    Seems like I read a warning somewhere about making 7.7 from 30-06. I think it was Huntington's catalog. Something about base dimensions, or I may be confused. I'll have a look see, ...... yep, RCBS says don't do it, base size for Jap is bigger than 30-06 family. (page 52/53 Huntington's 2011 retail catalog), not a safe conversion. I'm not the fireforming police, do what you want, just passing along a bit of info I ran across while looking for a die to do just that so's I could feed my Arisaka. No die available from RCBS for that one.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    nicholst55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Yuma, AZ
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by dualsport View Post
    Seems like I read a warning somewhere about making 7.7 from 30-06. I think it was Huntington's catalog. Something about base dimensions, or I may be confused. I'll have a look see, ...... yep, RCBS says don't do it, base size for Jap is bigger than 30-06 family. (page 52/53 Huntington's 2011 retail catalog), not a safe conversion. I'm not the fireforming police, do what you want, just passing along a bit of info I ran across while looking for a die to do just that so's I could feed my Arisaka. No die available from RCBS for that one.
    While I agree totally with you, RCBS used to say the same thing about 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser - don't form it from .30-06 because the head diameter is too small. That was before Remchester brass was made in this flavor with - you guessed it - standard .30-06 head diameter. Not sure if RCBS still goes by that seemingly outdated policy or not.
    'I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more, Toto!' Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    Hip's Ax's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Escaped NJ now in PA, YES!!
    Posts
    1,156
    I made some out of Lake City, they worked fine but really long and boring trimming all that excess off. I annealed them as well. I bought Graf's after that.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Pavogrande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    san josie calif
    Posts
    425
    Many moons ago, I made my 7.7 from what was then plentiful - WWII 06 brass - A wrap of scotch tape around the base took care of the size difference and kept the case centered for the first firing -- Not needed for subsequent firing -- At that time neck/throat differences were not thought about, but did not seem to cause any problems --

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Ohio- Painesville and Cleveland and Port Clinton.
    Posts
    2,285
    While I have occasionally had a case head seperate after dozens of firings, this is usually just an extraction problem- it doesn't usually douse you with gas and the Arisaka has a good gas shield. Ergo, I have no issue with the conversion.

    I use whatever I have on hand. Most of mine is LC 69.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    238
    I like Lake City, CMP Danish, CMP Greek, and any available boxer primed military 30/06 cases (in reasonable quantity to have a good "lot size"). I like to use the military cases because the head stamp is NOT stamped 30/06. I especially like head stamps with a 77 date - add a punch mark between the 7's and it is "almost" a perfect head stamp for the 7.7 mm Japanese case. Just one approach. I like to save the commercial 30/06 with the correct head stamp for use to reload 30/06 ammo. I may have a large neck diameter in my rifle's chamber, I have never had any problems with "thick necks". If anything, the slightly thicker necks might help. The "love handles" on the reformed neck seem to "iron out" with the first firing or "fire forming" and after the next full length resizing. Safeshot
    Getting old is the best you can hope for.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master 0verkill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cranks, KY
    Posts
    647
    It may just be my method, but out of the "big 3" Winchester seems to form easiest with the fewest ruined cases. I've never formed any that had to be reamed, but that could just be my chamber.

  13. #13
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    24
    Do a search for Hornady 7.7. I think Sportsman's Paradise has it cheap.

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    17
    I have made 7.7 brass from any 30-06 but it is not advisable. Since 7.7 brass is available
    http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...roductId/12653

    also Norma brass is available. I would reccommend you buy commercial brass...expecially if you shoot any high pressure jacketed loads.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master 0verkill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cranks, KY
    Posts
    647
    If you're having to buy brass anyway, yeah go ahead and buy actual 7.7 brass. The big point of using 30-06 for me is that I can get it for free as long as I'm not too lazy to bend over and pick it up off the ground. I bet this is the reason a lot of others use it to form other cartridges. In the 2 months before deer season it seems to sprout from the ground like mushrooms in spring.

    A little tip, most of the metric or European calibers Hornady sell is PRVI brass, go to Grafs.com and get PRVI cheaper.

    As to the whole 30-06 being slightly smaller, the drawing in the Hornady 7th edition lists the base of 30-06 base as .470 and the rim at .473. It lists 7.7 with a base of .471 and a rim of .470, not a big diffrence. Lee,s modern reloading 2nd edition lists the 30-06 with a base of .470 and arim of .473, the 7.7 is listed as having a base and rim .003 larger at .473 and .476. I think the big deal is that there is no SAAMI spec on 7.7 Arisaka which would explain why the 30-06 measurements match and the 7.7 dont. Measure most any factory new brass against dimensions given in a reloading manual and the actual brass will usually come out quite a bit smaller. Federal brass seems to be especially bad for this.
    Long story short, if the measurements listed above sound like too much difference to you, don't do it.

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    17
    Hornady's dimention for 7.7 brass is wrong. [I] have seen many references where apparently they just copied those dimentions. I have seen the rim diameter listed to as high as .478. My inhand reference which is Ken Howell's DESIGNING AND FORMING CUSTOM CARTRIDGES list the head diameter as .4743 and the rim diameter as .4760. I measured the head diameter of some of my 7.7 fired (unsized) brass and they measure .476. I would recommend that a 7.7 shooter buy factory 7.7 brass of whatever brand they can find. PRVI brass is cheaper and well made.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by 0verkill View Post
    In the 2 months before deer season it seems to sprout from the ground like mushrooms in spring.
    Thanks for that, it made me laugh. I have pounds and pounds of 30-06 brass liberated from terra firma but I picked up 20 Norma 7.7x58 cases off of Fleabay which satisfied my needs.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master 0verkill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cranks, KY
    Posts
    647
    Quote Originally Posted by shastaboat View Post
    Hornady's dimention for 7.7 brass is wrong. [I] have seen many references where apparently they just copied those dimentions. I have seen the rim diameter listed to as high as .478. My inhand reference which is Ken Howell's DESIGNING AND FORMING CUSTOM CARTRIDGES list the head diameter as .4743 and the rim diameter as .4760. I measured the head diameter of some of my 7.7 fired (unsized) brass and they measure .476. I would recommend that a 7.7 shooter buy factory 7.7 brass of whatever brand they can find. PRVI brass is cheaper and well made.
    Is that Norma or milsurp?
    I would bet that the reason for the small size listed could be from measuring surplus cartridges that were out of spec, being manufactured during wartime and all.

  19. #19
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Central East Coast of Florida
    Posts
    83
    Guys, making cases for the 7.7x58 Japanese out of 30-06 brass (any 30-06 brass) is 100% safe.
    I have been doing so for 45 years, and I have yet to have a case split at the base.
    I feed a couple Japanese machine guns with said reformed brass, and MG chambers are normally cut larger than rifle chambers.
    Yes, the base of the 30-06 case buldges out a bit, but it is no big deal.
    Norma 7.7x58 brass is considered to be excellant stuff.
    Well I hate to tell you this, but Norma brass is undersized at the base, as the 7.7 Japanese Norma makes is nothing but a shortend 30-06 case.
    Don't believe me, well then measure a unfired Norma 7.7 Japanese case and compare it to a unfired 30-06 case.
    So lets put this 30-06 to 7.7x58 myth to bed!
    I personally now use 8x57 Mauser brass, as there is no case trimming required, just resize and load.
    The 30-06 requires 5 mm of trimming (about .200 inch), and that is a lot of trimming to do.
    Gregg

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


    Wayne Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia
    Posts
    7,183
    Only one personal experience. Arisaka99's rifle is rechambered with an 06 reamer. This leaves the 06 cartridge base expanded a little. We found this out when he was neck sizing the first cartridges he fired. With the 06 die screwed out he was still slightly resizing the case maybe 3/8" up from the base as it entered the base of the die. Not enough to matter, but enough that he lightly lubed the rest of the cases.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check