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Thread: 8 Ball buckshot Load in AA Hulls

  1. #1
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    8 Ball buckshot Load in AA Hulls

    I struggle with shotshell reloading. I greatly dislike the whole exact load recipe data dealie. That being said, I'll try to stick with it. These loads will be shot only in a 3" chambered gun so hopefully that gives me some space in pressure tolerances.

    I want a load for red 2-3/4" Winchester AA hulls, 8 point crimp, Federal 209A primers and one of the following powders:
    Unique
    Red Dot
    Green Dot
    Winchester Super Target (WST)
    700X

    I only have WAA12 wads and I have been unable to get something that chambers will once it has a crimp, the wad takes up too much space. So I am open to suggestions on a better wad to use. also, this is OO buck.
    Last edited by thehouseproduct; 07-21-2011 at 04:07 PM.

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    My question is, what kind of ball are we talking here? If it is 00 buck, that will make a 1 ounce load (roughly) of a payload. You could use Red dot, Green dot, or 700x for a "tactical" load (1200 fps), Unique for a heavier load (up to 1400 fps give or take). Super target is likely similar to Red/Green Dot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sargenv View Post
    My question is, what kind of ball are we talking here? If it is 00 buck, that will make a 1 ounce load (roughly) of a payload. You could use Red dot, Green dot, or 700x for a "tactical" load (1200 fps), Unique for a heavier load (up to 1400 fps give or take). Super target is likely similar to Red/Green Dot.
    Sorry. Its OO. How much powder? What wad works for you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehouseproduct View Post
    I struggle with shotshell reloading. I greatly dislike the whole exact load recipe data dealie. That being said, I'll try to stick with it. These loads will be shot only in a 3" chambered gun so hopefully that gives me some space in pressure tolerances.

    I want a load for red Winchester AA hulls, 8 point crimp, Federal 209A primers and one of the following powders:
    Unique
    Red Dot
    Green Dot
    Winchester Super Target (WST)
    700X

    I only have WAA12 wads and I have been unable to get something that chambers will once it has a crimp, the wad takes up too much space.
    Need more information
    2-3/4 hull
    guess is
    8 shot=000 buck=1-3/8 oz and is not listed in my book

    this is not the normal load that fits in a WAA12 white wad you need a different wad or you will not get a good crimp

    normal load is
    12 pellets of #0 or
    10 pellets of #0
    27 pellets of #4 buck
    15 pellets of #1 buck

    most of the above loads fit in a WAA12R wad
    and the powders you list are not any of the powders listed in my book under buckshot

    Some reloading data is listed on some of the powder manuf web sites

    so I think you need to revise # of shot you want to load
    get a different powder
    and get a different Wad

    Talk to your friends
    one could have the power you need and
    another could have the wads
    so you could do a small test batch

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    Greetings, here is what I had posed for a blazing fast buck shot loads else where,
    the only way to increase velocity is to reduce the shot weight!
    1, Using Moly on wads will give slightly higher velocity.
    2, A good tight deep crimp will give better combustion!
    3, Using wads with longer skirts will flair enough to seal all the powder gases behind it and give higher velocity!

    12 ga. Fed.GM hull, Win 209, 38.1 gr of Longshot gives 1585 fps with 1 1/8 oz. Fed 12S3 wad.

    12 ga. 3" Fiocchi, Fio 616, 38 gr of Longshot gives1520 fps with 1 1/8 oz. Ranger-Plus, 9300 Psi.

    12 ga. Win.AA, Win 209, 39.5 gr of SR4756 gives1595 fps with 8-OO buck, 10.800 Psi. Win
    WAA 12R wad ( with 6 balls of OO should be much higher velocity.)

    By using wads with thicker petals you can delay the shot release and thus add yardage!
    Please note not all shotguns are made to with stand the newer hotter loads!
    This is not authoritative, and all usual disclaimers apply!
    Use the above at your own risk.
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    I have not tried this but will if you don't feel comfortable with it. Here's what I suggest: Choose a 1 1/8 oz. load using Unique that you like that uses a WAA12 wad or any wad you have. Remove the wad petals and see if you can comfortably seat 9 00's in layers of 3. If you can you've only to shoot 'em and see if you like what it does. You didn't say what you wanted these loads to do. Regards, Woody
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    So far Woody has been the only one close to answering your question.

    I will add my 2 cents, since I do have two full ammo cans loaded for zombies using nearly the same components you list. First off, I have a dozen shotshell manuals (and I suggest you get one too) that list published buckshot loads loaded with everything from 700x to Steel, and nearly everything in between. I believe I have tried them all, and continue to do so...just for the fun of it. My conclusin is that nearly any 1oz field load can be used with an 8 ball load of "00" buck that will function for home defense. 8 ball loads should fit just fine in the WAA12 wad withough cutting the petals ( they do for me). Use 1 1/8 oz loads for a 9 ball (3 tiers of 3 stack)..you may have to remove the petals for these tiers to fit.

    Secondly, you are already on the right track; if you are talking 1200fps home defense loads, an 8 pellet load with 4 stacks of two pellets will out-shoot a 9 pellet load in terms of short range grouping any day of the week...at least in my 14 shotguns. I didn't invent this idea. BPI, numerous articles, and a whole bunch of threads in this forum will bear out this conclusion, including posts by the most honorable Mr. James Gates of Dixie slugs. Do a search and you will see.

    Thirdly, my best 8 pellet loads (remember these are defense loads, not for deer hunting) have come from using 19.0-23 grans of Green Dot, or 21-24 grains of Unique. You have to experiment a little to find what works for you. Go to the Alliant.com website and select the Green Dot and Unique loads that match your criteria, load them with 8 balls of "00" and test to see if you get what you want.

    These threads have some info, although the OP didn't want to listen to anything anyone was trying to tell him:

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=113362
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=114223
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=buckshot

    Please take no offense at this comment...just trying to explain a few things : While there are a WHOLE LOT of very knowledgeable buckshot loaders on this forum, most seem tired (can't blame them) of answering the same questions over and over. " I have X and Y components, can I use them for Buckshot?" The search function of this forum will yield a tremendous--the most comprehensive in cyberspace--bunch of real world experience one the web. I heartily suggest you search for posts on buckshot by Dixie Slugs (James Gates on shooter's forum.com), Turbo1889, woody1, VdoMemorie and many others.

    Lastly...you didn't specify the intended use of these loads. Hunting loads are a whole nother animal from HD loads. HD loads should be light enough in recoil for quick follow up shots, and not give you worry about penetrating through the walls of your house into your neighbor's bedroom. Hunting buckshot uses slow powders like Longshot, and Blue Dot, specialty wads designed for steel shot etc...


    This is long winded and a bit terse (forgive me I have a headache this morning). I will gladly help you best I can with my limited pea brain through pm if you wish.

    Good luck!!!!

    For good reading: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=buckshot
    Last edited by diehard; 07-22-2011 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diehard View Post
    So far Woody has been the only one close to answering your question.
    I appreciate noticing that. I might have to revisit the Green Dot load discussed in those threads. I find it hard to believe that will all the data out there, that every possible combo hasn't been tested. I might just end up going back to the method that got me my slug load. My gun has a built in pressure sensor. The gas system. I sub one component and work up 0.2gr at a time until the gun just barely cycles consistently.

    I guess it's also worth mentioning that these are just range loads. I have OO, OOO and slug molds, and free lead, so I want to make my own shells for shooting at the range at steel targets.
    Last edited by thehouseproduct; 07-22-2011 at 01:55 PM.

  9. #9
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    I just came back to this thread.. I'll dig up some info that I would be comfortable using and post it when I get a chance.

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    Again...go to Alliant.com and check out their online Reloader's Guide as your starting point. From the components you listed, I see that 19-20 grains of Green Dot will get you going on your way.

    The books may have other loads that use the Fed209A primer. I suspect there are a few Unique loads out there that use this primer. I'll keep my eye out for you. [ Spending $4 on a 100 Win or CCI primers would have in knee deep in possible alternatives!]

    FWIW...I just loaded Three boxes of 8 and 9 pellet buck tonight for this weekend's playtime. I used Win Univ hulls (WAA data), Win 209 primers, 21 grs Green Dot, and the DownRange clone version of the WAA12F114. I expect some dead (close range) cardboard bad guys this weekend.


    Good Luck.
    Last edited by diehard; 07-22-2011 at 09:37 PM.

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    PM Sent

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    FWIW...I just loaded Three boxes of 8 and 9 pellet buck tonight for this weekend's playtime. I used Win Univ hulls (WAA data), Win 209 primers, 21 grs Green Dot, and the DownRange clone version of the WAA12F114. I expect some dead (close range) cardboard bad guys this weekend.

    IMO, this is what you need. Using Win AA hulls I tried to get 8 '00's in a WAA12 with 21.5 gr. Green Dot and even going to 80 lb. wad pressure I couldn't get a satisfactory fit with my components. When I changed to WAA12R wads I had plenty of room. In fact needed a card wad in the bottom of the shotcup for perfect crimp. I think the WAA12F114 wad is similar if not the same as the discontinued WAA12R. Regards, Woody
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  13. #13
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    I used to load AA red trap hulls with nine balls of 00 buck. Three balls per layer.
    Cut the petals off plastic wad cups. IIRC I used the white WW wad for 1 1/8 oz of shot.
    Powder charge was from the bushing for my 1 oz magnum loads using WW540 which is sold as H-6 now. The big charge of slow powder for the 1 oz load was plenty of push. Velocity was probably around 1,500 fps and results were astonishing on ferrule cats out to 135 yards. I would highly recommend the slow powders. Blue dot and others. They give good patterns. One thing you need to avoid is deforming the balls and the slow powder aids in that goal. Open chokes cyl and imp cyl will give best patterns.

    After we got deer and the heard following coyotes here in central Illinois the wild cat population disappeared so I don't carry the 00 buck anymore.

  14. #14
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    I would highly recommend the slow powders. Blue dot and others. They give good patterns.
    I whole heartily agree on the slower powder theory using specialized wads for hunting. I have compiled a spreadsheet from a number of sources like BPI, PRI, and early Lyman and Reloading for Shotgunners manuals that all follow this theory for everything from from bears to coyotes. Buffered loads (taken from the same various manuals), also offer a whole other dimension to buckshot hunting. However, for punching paper bad guys, or for shooting two-legged vermin within the confines of your own house, I do believe that the mid-range powders are the ticket...mostly because you can shoot a hundred of them and suffer half of the pain inflieced by a single well constructed 1 7/8 oz 3" Fiocchi hull packed to the top with Blue Dot.

    I have one manual published in the 1980's by RCBS (edited by Kenneth Cougar) that ONLY offers buckshot loads packed with 700x. I've never had great results with these loads, so I focus instead on Green dot and Unique for playing around ( and for the forthcoming looting binges by ruthless zombies after the US government becomes insolvent).

    For some really effective long range buck loads check the BPI book here:. Also the Curmudgeon has some great specialty loads he offers for free ( so you will buy his components). I've tried most of them and they are every bit as deadly as he claims. YOu can find the whole list of these loads here (with a little perusing); Good Stuff!

    buckshot is fun....its not just for breakfast anymore ( to coin an old tv add for a long forgotten useless product).

    enjoy!

  15. #15
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    Source for buffered 8 pellet 00B data for AA hull:

    http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre...rs%20Guide.pdf

    For the best choke bore patterns with 00B, a two layer stack of hard pellets in a buffered/shot cup is the way to go.
    Last edited by RMc; 07-23-2011 at 10:18 PM.

  16. #16
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    House, as you can see from the manual that RNc so graciously loaded for you, that making buckshot from your existent components is a difficult task...if one wants to follow any type of tested and proofed recipe. Now I HATE it when then the only things folks have to say is " buy something else, or get one one these because I use it, or any of the generally unproductive , and unhelpful advice that fills the internet. However, this time I stand by my advice that a $4 100 pack of Win 209 pimers will open the doors wide open for your discovery/play time.


    Good Luck,

    Lauel

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check