Ruger .45 ACP Blackhawk

[Wally]

Have a convertible. When shooting .45 ACP's w/ the .45 ACP cylinder I often have FTF incidents and was wondering if anyone else has this happen to them. I also have a two other Blackhawks in the .30 M-1 Carbine & a .357 Mag Convertible (w a 9mm cylinder)..no such problems. As all three calibers (9mm Luger/.45 ACP/ .30 M-1 Carbine) are rimless I do realize case length is critical--so I use little crimping with each--just a gentle crimp with a taper crimp die to remove the bell on the case.

[subsonic]

Headspace - sounds like too much of it. Brass is too short or something is off in cylinder fit. Try a different brand of ammo.

[Wally]

Headspace - sounds like too much of it. Brass is too short or something is off in cylinder fit. Try a different brand of ammo.

I think that you are correct. The ammo used shoots just fine in my Camp Carbine .45 ACP. I think the cylinder is set out a bit too far for the FP to make good contact...

[MtGun44]

Most .45 ACP brass is fairly short, I have never actually seen one that was at or above
the max length. Maybe the cyl is chambered too deep.

Possibly the firing pin is too short or there is a crud build up keeping it from moving
forward as much as it should. Remove the cyl and let the hammer down from full cock,
and keep the trigger pulled so the firing pin continues to protrude. Measure the amount
protuding with feeler gages - which is tricky, but you should be able to get a decent
approximation. Then do the next check.

Push a fired case into the clean cyl and then rotate it to the firing position and see what
feeler gage will slide in between the case head and frame. Should be only a few thousandths,
maybe .010 or so max, I don't know the correct value, but too much and the firing pin
will not reach the primer - excessive headspace. Not a safety issue in this design, but
a functional issue for sure.

See how much of the firing pin protrusion is being 'consumed' by the headspace and you will
see how much the max indent on a primer will be. Short firing pin protrusion or excessive
headspace seems like the issue - assuming that it is happening with factory ammo. Fire
a few rounds of factory and examine the primer dents. Should be deep and strong.

Bill

[Wally]

Most .45 ACP brass is fairly short, I have never actually seen one that was at or above
the max length. Maybe the cyl is chambered too deep.

Possibly the firing pin is too short or there is a crud build up keeping it from moving
forward as much as it should. Remove the cyl and let the hammer down from full cock,
and keep the trigger pulled so the firing pin continues to protrude. Measure the amount
protuding with feeler gages - which is tricky, but you should be able to get a decent
approximation. Then do the next check.

Push a fired case into the clean cyl and then rotate it to the firing position and see what
feeler gage will slide in between the case head and frame. Should be only a few thousandths,
maybe .010 or so max, I don't know the correct value, but too much and the firing pin
will not reach the primer - excessive headspace. Not a safety issue in this design, but
a functional issue for sure.

See how much of the firing pin protrusion is being 'consumed' by the headspace and you will
see how much the max indent on a primer will be. Short firing pin protrusion or excessive
headspace seems like the issue - assuming that it is happening with factory ammo. Fire
a few rounds of factory and examine the primer dents. Should be deep and strong.

Bill

Thank you,
I was thinking of the a feeler gauge as mentioned...then perhaps others can tell me what their's measures...if mine is too large a gap I think I'll have to contact Ruger. I don't have/use factory ammo. Also will blow out the FP recess--maybe it is gunked up

[smkummer]

My Colt 1917 revolver has this problem with some cases that are too short. Evidently the problem is as old as the gun. It has no problem when used with 1/2 or full moon clips.

[Poygan]

I have the opposite problem: my new model convertible .45 has never had a FTF with .45 acp. The carbine new model has been so hit and miss that I resort to .32-20 brass.

[Wally]

My Colt 1917 revolver has this problem with some cases that are too short. Evidently the problem is as old as the gun. It has no problem when used with 1/2 or full moon clips.

It would probably be a good idea if I get some of those clips... I have measured resized .45 ACP cases and they are all short, some quite a bit under the min length that they should be. Can it be that they actually shorten with use?

[Wally]

I have the opposite problem: my new model convertible .45 has never had a FTF with .45 acp. The carbine new model has been so hit and miss that I resort to .32-20 brass.

So far my .30 M-1 Carbine has never had a FTF...

[Wally]

[QUOTE=MtGun44;1340464]Most .45 ACP brass is fairly short, I have never actually seen one that was at or above
the max length. Maybe the cyl is chambered too deep.

Possibly the firing pin is too short or there is a crud build up keeping it from moving
forward as much as it should. Remove the cyl and let the hammer down from full cock,
and keep the trigger pulled so the firing pin continues to protrude. Measure the amount
protuding with feeler gages - which is tricky, but you should be able to get a decent
approximation. Then do the next check.

Push a fired case into the clean cyl and then rotate it to the firing position and see what
feeler gage will slide in between the case head and frame. Should be only a few thousandths,

Got out a feeler gauge---with cases .879" long I could pass a .025" through it tightly--with the .45 Colt a .014" would just fit--both have a cylinder gap of .009". No cases that I measured are the minimum length of .895"---some are .02" shorter. This must be the reason for the FTF..looks like I need some half moon clips...not sure where to get them... any ideas where I can?
maybe .010 or so max, I don't know the correct value, but too much and the firing pin

[theperfessor]

I don't think moon clips will work in a Ruger SA unless it has had the back of the cylinder cut to accommodate them. They were designed to allow for proper headspacing and ejection in a swing out DA revolver. They would prevent ejection unless the whole cylinder was removed.

If your chambers are cut too deep you may be able to have a few thousandths taken off the back of the cylinder ratchet and use a shim at the front. This might set the cylinder back enough to help your FTF situation.

[MT Gianni]

Try seating the bullet out a little until you find the oal that is right for your cylinder. Then mark your cylinder and see if all 6 are the same. You might need to load for this gun only and keep them separate from the rest of you acp loads but it should work.

[M-Tecs]

If you are using a roll crimp back it off some. I recommend switching to a taper crimp.

[MtGun44]

I think I would contact Ruger and ask what the correct dimension should be. ALL .45 ACP
brass is way shorter than the book value, this is entirely normal, really. I tend to think that
the .014 for .45 Colt and .025 for .45 ACP indicates too deep chambers or too short brass.

I will get mine out and do some measuring and get back to you.. . . . . . . .

OK, my BH shows .012 -.013 with a .895 case, .016 with a .890 case. Can't explain the
difference fully, but the primer looked like was protruding a hair on one. The firing pin
protrusion is more than the .035 leaf, maybe .005 or .008 more by eyeball. So call the
firing pin protrusion about .040 to 043.

I was surprised, I have not measured a .45 ACP case in decades. The ones I grabbed were
all running between .889 and .895. But BY MEMORY (!) they were much shorter decades ago.
Get some new brass and measure it, may make all the difference. I was pulling from a
can of brass that is all of recent manufacture, although mixed headstamp. It looks like to
me that the .45 ACP ammo makers have gotten a lot closer to the book dimensions recently,
whatever recently means in this context.

New brass is the first move, short brass could be the entire problem.

MT Gianni's approach should work, if your boolits can hold the case back.

Bill

[white eagle]

I agree use the boolit for headspace

[casterofboolits]

If the cylinder chambers are bored too deep, Ruger should (?) replace it with a correctly chambered cylinder. I don't expet to have to fix factory errors.

[Wally]

I think I would contact Ruger and ask what the correct dimension should be. ALL .45 ACP
brass is way shorter than the book value, this is entirely normal, really. I tend to think that
the .014 for .45 Colt and .025 for .45 ACP indicates too deep chambers or too short brass.

I will get mine out and do some measuring and get back to you.. . . . . . . .

OK, my BH shows .012 -.013 with a .895 case, .016 with a .890 case. Can't explain the
difference fully, but the primer looked like was protruding a hair on one. The firing pin
protrusion is more than the .035 leaf, maybe .005 or .008 more by eyeball. So call the
firing pin protrusion about .040 to 043.

I was surprised, I have not measured a .45 ACP case in decades. The ones I grabbed were
all running between .889 and .895. But BY MEMORY (!) they were much shorter decades ago.
Get some new brass and measure it, may make all the difference. I was pulling from a
can of brass that is all of recent manufacture, although mixed headstamp. It looks like to
me that the .45 ACP ammo makers have gotten a lot closer to the book dimensions recently,
whatever recently means in this context.

New brass is the first move, short brass could be the entire problem.

MT Gianni's approach should work, if your boolits can hold the case back.

Bill

Thank you--would seem that mine has twice the clearance. With a short case it is not surprising I get a FTF. I have wedged the FTF round with masking tape so it sticks out a bit more--usually it will then fire. Others have told me to use softer primers...I used to use WW and had far fewer FTFs with them...what I now use is Wolf.

[Wally]

If you are using a taper crimp back it off some. I recommend switching to a roll crimp.

I have been TCing and have tried so test rounds with no TC--makes no difference...I never did over TC any

[Wally]

If you are using a taper crimp back it off some. I recommend switching to a roll crimp.

Try seating the bullet out a little until you find the oal that is right for your cylinder. Then mark your cylinder and see if all 6 are the same. You might need to load for this gun only and keep them separate from the rest of you acp loads but it should work.

I will try that--thanks. As I use Lee TL bullets may not be as easy to do as with a regular .45 Cal CB....as I liek to lead it so the front case edge rests on lead and not on a shallow TL grease groove. But I shoot a lot of 454389's that aren't TL---it's with these round I have the most FTFs.

[Wally]

I don't think moon clips will work in a Ruger SA unless it has had the back of the cylinder cut to accommodate them. They were designed to allow for proper headspacing and ejection in a swing out DA revolver. They would prevent ejection unless the whole cylinder was removed.

If your chambers are cut too deep you may be able to have a few thousandths taken off the back of the cylinder ratchet and use a shim at the front. This might set the cylinder back enough to help your FTF situation.

I did think of that--the cylinder gap is at .009" and if I did that it'd be even bigger---I'd be better off sending it to Ruger...thanks for the suggestion.