1917 Enfield 30-06 0.311" groove diameter ,need advice

[Sapper771]

I am needing some assistance with cast boolits and my 1917 Enfield. I have been casting pistol boolits for a few months now. I feel like I am ready to start casting for rifle.
I have a sporterized Remington 1917 Enfield in 30-06. The bore is a little rough and lightly pitted. It still has a little shine left, but thats it. Lands look to be in good shape. I slugged the bore (5 groove) and it showed to have a groove diameter of 0.311". Is that normal ? A friend told me that 0.311" was odd. Bore diameter showed to be 0.300".

I chose this rifle to cast for because I have everything needed to cast for it, except boolit mold, lube sizer die, top punch, gas checks and an appropriate Lyman M die. I would like to use a Lee mold to start with due to their price. I just dont know which mold would be best due to the groove diameter being 0.311". I am thinking either one of the 7.62x39 or the 303 british mold, but am unsure. I was also looking at the 0.313" RCBS lube sizer die as far as sizing goes. That should ensure a good fit. I will be using ACWW alloy , BAC, and carnuba red lubes.


The only thing that concerns me is the bore condition. I was thinkings about running some more FMJs through it to see if that will smooth it out a bit more. Just from what I have read so far online, the consensus is to just try some cast boolits out to see if the bore is good enough to shoot them accurately.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[Ben]

Is there copper fouling in the bore right now ?

The bore needs to be 101% copper free prior to
shooting your cast bullets.

You say........ " I slugged the bore (5 groove)
and it showed to have a groove diameter of 0.311"

Getting an accurate reading with a mic on a bullet
that has been tapped through a 5 groove barrel is
tricky at best ( see the equation below ) .
No disrespect intended, but if you didn't use the
proper technique to measure your slug, you may
or may not have a barrel with a .311 bore.



Or , you could wrap a pc. of brass shim stock
around the slug, measure with a good quality mic.,
then deduct the thickness of the shim stock ( 2 X )
from your mic reading. For example if your shim
is .006 . That would be X 2, so you'd
subtract .012 " from your reading on your mic.

Ben

[walltube]

Sapper771,

As Ben asks, have you cleaned the bore of all copper?

You do not say, but your post suggests that the barrell is original mil-surp. If so, there may well be untold layers of copper and powder fouling that need be removed. Thorough cleaning of the bore is an important first step with any mil-surp of undetermined history. Lead projectiles demand a copper free tube.

Support our CB tool makers & vendors,
Wt.

[mroliver77]

Decopper as above and get the Lee boolit for the .303, 7.7 jap. I forget the # but it should drop big enough. The 7.62x39 boolit is a good one too but kind of light.

My military dress 1917 had a darkish barrel. After cleaning copper for a few days it looked better. I then started shooting cast and would soak and clean when done leaving a coating of Eds Red in the barrel while stored. It brightened up nicely and is a great shooter!
Jay

[walltube]

Ben,
Thank you for your vee-block illustrations with math. A good one to save.

Sapper771,
Firing copper clad bullets will not clean or "smooth out" a worn, dirty barrell. It will only add more copper fouling to be cleaned. A badly fouled barrell is capable of mis-leading, often incorrect, measurements. Ben's brass shim stock trick works. Maybe not as accurate as the vee-block, but simpler to use. Always my go-to, because I do simple real good..:>P

Good luck with the 1917,
Harold

[Sapper771]

I have been using CLP bore foam. I filled the bore with the foam, let it sit for 20 minutes, then I ran a bore brush though it a few times, then swabbed the bore out with patches. I did this twice. on the seconded foaming, the foam did not come out blue (foam turns blue when it contacts copper). I admit I Dont have much experience de-coppering a bore. The foam has been effective on my Rem 700's Shillen barrel. Do you Gentlemen recommend an effective copper remover? I have some JB bore paste somewhere.

When I measured the slug, I measured from the trailing edge of one groove to the leading edge of another groove. I used a micrometer and calipers. Both showed 0.311". I dont have a V block, dont know anyone that has one either, but I can ask around. I could probably come up with a shim of some sort to use to measure the slug. I was surprised that the Enfield had a 5 groove barrel.

The barrel is the original as far as I can tell.

[Oldeyes]

Per "Hatcher's Notebook" the bores were spec'd at .300 and groove diameter at .310, so your 0.311 measurement is pretty good! My three are all pretty close to .0312- measuring a slug to get the bore+one groove depth and using a pin gage to determine bore diameter, a bit of subtraction for groove depth, then adding another groove to the first slug for total diameter.
Yep, 5 groove was odd for a US barrel but the machinery was set up for the Brit 303 and left unchanged when changed over to our 30-06.
I have not tried cast yet but they do well with .312 jacketed.....

[wiljen]

hard to go wrong with the Lyman 314299 in the 1917s too. Both of mine (sporter and original) like that boolit or the 311284 sized to .312 and heat treated.

[Sapper771]

Oldeyes, Thank you for the info, Sir.

Wiljen, I will probably look into some of the other molds later on once I get better at casting rifle boolits. I like sticking with Lee for the moment due to their low cost. Its easier to swallow if I make a mistake. I will see if I can find those molds, maybe used, for sale. I have been told that the Lyman, RCBS, and Saeco molds produce better boolits than the Lee.

[Rico1950]

Sapper771,
Find that JB bore paste you have laying around. It will do wonders cleaning up that bore.

[leadman]

With an old rifle that has a dark bore I have found the foam will remove the copper from a layer, with untouched layers under it.
JB Bore paste and then good bore brushes, with soaking overnight with Hoppe's or similar.

Also for removing crud the purple cleaner sold as Castrol Super Clean or Purple Power works good. Make sure you do not get in on anodized parts or your hands, will remove the anodize and peel your skin eventually.

[DIRT Farmer]

I shoot two Enfields, a Remmington and a Eddystone. Both improved when I loaded to throat diamiter instead of bore. Both have a generous throat and a 0.314 will chamber and shoot well. I have an old 311-291 170grn that casts oversize and is great in my rifles.

[Mark Daiute]

20 grains 2400 and the 311284 from a recent group buy, cast from 50/50 lead and wheel weights. water dropped and sized to .309, did it for me in my Remington 1917. Didn't shoot for beans in my 1903 but was terrific in the Model 1917. Go figure

[curator]

.311 is common bore diameter in M1917 rifles. I have sluggedand measured more than 50. I found mine shot best with the Lyman #314266 and 17.5 grains of Allliant 2400. Great rifles if the bore is half way reasonable.

[303Guy]

Sapper771, there is much that can be achieved with paper patching in old bores. Have a look at the smokeless paper patching section. If nothing else, it's a lot of fun!

[Sapper771]

I want to thank everyone for the imput. I am going to wait a bit before I start casting for a rifle. I have some other things that have came up that require attention (and $$). This should give me some time to selected a rifle with a better bore condition. Thank you for your time and information.

[walltube]

You are welcome.

Bring a rifle with you when on your return trip.

Good shooting and good luck,
Wt.

[Three44s]

I would not give up on that 1917 so quickly.

The five groove does complicate you mission somewhat. As I recall, the owner of Beartooth Bullets will measure your five groove slugs for you (for free?). And while you are at it ... order his book for a paltry sum of 15 dollars postage paid on the subject of bullet fitament.

IT's darn good reading!

Since you have JB bore paste ......... I'd whole heartedly recommend a run of that in your somewhat dark bore.

Beartooth Bullets owner Marshal Stanton writes in his book that he's saved many a dark bore in 8mm Mauser with fire lapping ......... he sells a kit for that project.

All said, your biggest investment would be a mold if it were not a Lee.

Another rifle will cost much more.

If you do go for a different weapon ......... my favorite is the .338-06 ........ If I did not already own that one .......... I'd instead opt for a .35 Whelen.

Real good Thumper/Plinkers those two!

Best of luck

Three 44s