.38-55 vs .38-56 Bn

[Dragoon 45]

I was reading my SPG Primer and ran into something that did not make sense to me. The SPG Primer gives loads for each cartridge with something like 12 grains difference in powder capacity between the two, with the .38-56 able to hold 12 more grains than the .38-55 using the same bullet. Yet Cartridges of the World states there is only 1 grain of difference in powder capacity between the two cases. Which one of these two is correct. Seating depth in a single shot should not be that big of a variable between the two, should it? I could see seating depth making some difference in a lever gun depending on OAL but not in a single shot.

Just a little confused here.

[Piedmont]

Cartidges of the World is wrong. The .38-55 is an old Scheutzen round. If you breach seat your 330 grain bullet ahead of the case you might actually get 55 grains in there, maybe. If you seat bullets normally the .38-56 will hold much more powder.

[rhbrink]

The 38-56 is made from the 45-70 case with a lot of taper and a long shoulder it holds a lot more powder. I'm surprised that it isn't more popular for the increased capacity.

[Dragoon 45]

Thanks Guys. Chalk up another mistake for Cartridges of the World.

[NickSS]

I have rifles in both calibers and they both shoot excellent groups. When loading smokeless powder there is not much difference between the two rounds but with black the 38-56 will give you one to two hundred fps more velocity with a given bullet.

[Dragoon 45]

I have rifles in both calibers and they both shoot excellent groups. When loading smokeless powder there is not much difference between the two rounds but with black the 38-56 will give you one to two hundred fps more velocity with a given bullet.

Thanks for the Info. I am building my dream list for single shots after I order my next .40 cal. I was torn between the New Pedersoli High Wall in .38-55 or another .38 cal. From what you and others have said the .38-56 deserves some serious interest. How hard is brass to come by for it?

[EDG]

You should try reforming some brass first.
I form 40-65 brass from 45-70 and consider it a pain, the 38-56 would be tougher.
I would much prefer a .38-55 if there is any way to make it work.

[semtav]

Thanks for the Info. I am building my dream list for single shots after I order my next .40 cal. I was torn between the New Pedersoli High Wall in .38-55 or another .38 cal. From what you and others have said the .38-56 deserves some serious interest. How hard is brass to come by for it?

Go directly to a 38-72 and forget the rest !!!!

[rhbrink]

I helped a friend form some 38-56 from some 45-70 for his original '86 Winchester and didn't think that it was all that hard to do. At first we tried going straight to the 38-56 in one pass but that is too much it can be done but you get lots of wrinkles on the shoulder. We then sized to 40-65, annealed the case and then went to 38-56 no problem. The real problem was the RCBS dies were made for a .375 jacket bullet and he needed about a .381 cast maybe larger. the bore looked perfect but was way oversize.

[Boz330]

Go directly to a 38-72 and forget the rest !!!!

I was going to suggest 38-50RH, easier and cheaper brass (blown out 30-40 case). There was a guy at Camp Atterbury last year and won the whole mess with one. I guess the big question is what you are going to do with it. If long range is in the cards Semtay's suggestion might be the way to go, but if mid and short range is your bag why burn the extra powder and lead if you don't need to.

Bob

[Don McDowell]

The 1916 Winchester catalog says there's only 60 fps difference between the two. They listed the 38-55 charge as 48 grs with the 255 and 56 grs in the 56.
If I were going trotting merrily down the 38 bore trail, I'ld start with a fast twist 38-55 chambered for the long brass, and then if there was something more horsepower needed I'ld have the same rifle rechambered to 38-50 hepburn. Everybody I know of,that's done that has had nothing but good to say about it.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Can I dredge up this old thread... I'm just finishing up a Custom Martini Single Shot rifle with a match grade 375 caliber barrel, & a nice tight chamber in 38-56... Martini is of good quality & nice & tight, so I'm hoping to push the cartridge just a little warmer than intended in the Winchester rifle... have new Quality Cartridge correct headstamp cases ( also load 40-65, so could easily form some of my 45-70 cases if desired ) just getting ready to start loading for this rifle... not planning on using Black Powder in this Martini rifle...

Thoughts or suggestions

[doccash]

38-70 wcf is another option. I have an '86 that is a great shooter. cases form readily from 45-90 brass. I think it is a great ctg. Dr.

[doccash]

This was shot with a 38-56, cast boolit, and black powder. 38-56 is a viable ctg. Imo Dr.c

[beltfed]

I am LOVING my 38-50RH/10 twist . Very Accurate, flat shooting with 360 grain DDEPP bullet
over 67 grains Swiss 1.5
So far out to 600yds.
beltfed/arnie

[quail4jake]

Many "facts" published don't really check out. It seems that the author's statement is based on the fact that 56 is one more than 55, probably not based on actual determined water weight capacity of fire formed cases at STP then repeated to determine actual statistical difference which is not due to chance alone. Read carefully the data published by a well known handloding supply company (WKHSC), mostly well done and I admire the authors' efforts to make handloading science practical for the amateur public (I am amateur). But here is an example of necessary assumptions gone awry: look at the data in the buckshot manual which gives weights for specific pellet sizes and counts. Now weigh buckshot purchased from WKHLC and you may find sizes and actual weights very different which can make final payload weights very different from the data. The reason for this is that buckshot is made by different manufacturers in different batches which can vary to great extents and it's difficult for the importer, retailer (WKHLC) to weigh and classify all of it. I think that there is a disclaimer in WKHLC's manuals that the purchaser and user of their data should weigh charges and examine components and methods before loading and firing... something like that. If you call and speak to the owners, authors you will get a cordial and rational explanation of these nuances; because it matters! This is the difference between professional scientific publications and catalogue books of passing fancy. I use current published data and double check weights and types of components before taking any action and I would only trust information from non scientific "books" after it's verified with something or someone more credible, like some of the members of Cast Boolits. Only you can be the arbiter of truth when facts matter, like when it's your face behind the breech.

[Dave T]

For those of us who only crawl out from under our rocks occasionally, please interpret "WKHSC".

Dave

[quail4jake]

For those of us who only crawl out from under our rocks occasionally, please interpret "WKHSC".

Dave

Well Known Handloading Supply Company