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Thread: Setting up for boolits in a new 9mm

  1. #61
    Boolit Bub pappy4's Avatar
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    No help on that from me mallen I use a RL550b Dillon with the powder through expansion die.

  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I got tired of pulling 9mm that didn't pass the plunk test so I now do the plunk test on sized/expanded BUT not belled brass. 20% culls that go to the recycler if ANY resistance or wrong HS. No pulling boolits & punching out good primers anymore. Time well spent.
    Whatever!

  3. #63
    Boolit Mold
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    Hi Guys. I am somewhat new to the forum and this is my first post. I have read all the posts in this forum about the 9mm keyholing problem. My case is the following:
    I and two other shooters use CZ 75 SP-01 Shadows for IPSC shooting. When I reload with copper plated bullets from Argentina (I live in Paraguay) which measure .355-.3555 I have no problem with keyholing. These are round nose flat base bullets. I have been casting with a Lyman 147gn 4 bullet mold with wheel weight and Linotype mix that gives me a hardness of about 14Bnh (use the Lee hardness tester). I resize with a Lee .356 die that leaves the diameter at .355-.3555 and a good amount go sideways in the targets (somewhere between 2 and 4 per every 10 rounds). I have tried sticking with the cast bullets and coating with Alox, and also painting with an epoxy and Boron Nitride mix. I still get the keyholing problem.
    Lyman says the mold is great for IPSC shooting and has good accuracy. I contacted Lyman and they had no good suggestions for resolving this problem except that maybw velocity is too low so bump up the charge.
    I have varied powder to give 800fps up to 950fps and same problem, so it seems to not be a velocity issue.
    I will try NOT resizing and just going with the molded bullets next time around.
    I have not run a lead plug yet through my barrel.
    We went to a competition last saturday in Argentina and used factory match ammo and no problems. I pulled the copper jacketed bullet from this ammo and it measures .3535-3.54!
    Getting to my point--
    I have a keyholing problem with cast bullets using the Lyman 147gn mold. Varying powder amount makes no difference. I tried different poweder as well, W231, Unique. When I use plated bullets of a similar diameter to the molded lead bullets no problem. When I shot the factory ammo last weekend with a slightly smaller diameter jacketed bullet no problem.
    Any suggestions? This is driving me nuts and I can't use these bullets for competitions until I get this solved.
    Thanks,
    Dan

  4. #64
    Boolit Mold
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    Sorry. This is my Second post....

  5. #65
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by atacamadan View Post
    snip ... Said he has key holing problems with lead bullets but not jacketed bullets.
    Keep in mind lead and jacketed bullets are two different animals. Also keep in mind with lead bullets Fit is King and hardness matters when it matters. I suggest you slug your barrel with a soft lead ball at least twice to find groove diameter then make your bullets .001 to .001 over grove size. You didn't say but are you getting any leading if so where in the barrel.
    Lead bullets Matter

    There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. - Will Rodgers

  6. #66
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks for the quick reply 62Chevy! I will slug my barrel as you suggested. I am not getting any leading in the barrel. I water quench as well. Do you think the hardness of ~14BNH is ok?

  7. #67
    Boolit Mold
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    The first time I tried the epoxy coating it worked fine. No keyholing. I tumbled the bullets in a tub 3 times, letting them dry each time then cooking at 100C for 20-30min in between coats. Sounded like a good idea and the europeans have been keen on this. My next brainstorm was to spraypaint and I don't think the coat was very even. This was the start of the keyholing. So I went with just lead and lube and keyholing continued. Next batch I will do two things:
    1. Not resize
    2. Tumble paint 3 times. This should leave a thicker diameter to give a tighter fit. The first time I epoxy coated I had no leading whatsoever.

  8. #68
    Boolit Master
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    atacamadan,

    Load a dummy round and then pull it to measure the very edge of the base of the boolit. This will let you determine if the boolit is sizing down or swaging during the seating/crimping stages. Your boolit should be the same diameter as it started out once it is pulled from the case. I also suggest due to the nature of the 9mm case to size as large as your chamber will let you and many find success with .357 to .358 boolits should they chamber reliably. 14 BHN can work fine if the boolit comes out of the case after reloading .001 to .002 over bore groove diameter.

  9. #69
    Boolit Mold
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    Your lead bullets need to be sized about. 002 larger than what your barrel slugs. I went through this whole ordeal and that's what solved my problem. My barrel slugs at. 3553 so i now use a lee. 357 mold and after sizing through my Lee sizing die end up with 3.84 and these shoot great, no matter if i load hot or use a starting load.

  10. #70
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    ata sounds like you've eliminated all but sizing. Keep your charge at midrange not hot and size .002 over your slugged groove size. I bet once you get the right size for your barrel you'll be good. Keep us posted.

  11. #71
    Boolit Mold
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    Update-I slugged my barrel this morning and it ranges from.3535 to .3545. One measurement was .355 but in general the .3535-.3545 seems to be the best average. I checked some of the unresized bullets and they average about .357-.358. My Lee resizing die runs the back to .355. So I guess the problem is pretty obvious as you guys have mentioned, my resized lead bullets are too small for the barrel.
    I'll make up some more and go without resizing and see if this solves the problem until I can get a larger resizing die of .357 or .358. I'll also try painting on resized bullets and on non resized bullets. The epoxy coat is pretty hard after cooking in the oven.

  12. #72
    Boolit Mold
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    Confusing post... sorry about that. I guess what I need to consider is that I got a .355 measurement and the other ones were smaller, therefore I need to go with the largest size of .355, go .002 over the .355 size which would be .357.

  13. #73
    Boolit Mold
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    Let us know! ☺

  14. #74
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by atacamadan View Post
    Confusing post... sorry about that. I guess what I need to consider is that I got a .355 measurement and the other ones were smaller, therefore I need to go with the largest size of .355, go .002 over the .355 size which would be .357.
    I think you are on the right track.
    Lead bullets Matter

    There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. - Will Rodgers

  15. #75
    Boolit Master
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    Just hone out your current push through die.

    I use a homemade metal split rod about 75% diameter of the die and wrap varying grit (220 if I want to remove a lot to 300 then 400 grit) wet/dry sand paper cut into appropriate width strips to fit the split part of the rod. I then wrap around the split rod until a snug fit is obtained into the sizing die and apply a little oil. I chuck this into my cordless drill and go slowly at it. Others have used a wooden dowel as well.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Lee-Sizing-die

  16. #76
    Boolit Mold

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    Mtgun44- just wanted to say thanks for the good information and insight you brought together in one spot for 9mm. Getting it figured out thanks to you!

    Thanks,
    larrupin

  17. #77
    Boolit Mold
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    Hi Guys. Been busy and haven't gotten back to checking on this until now. I did a run of lead bullets (about 14Bnh--mix of linotype and wheel weights) with a Magma Research Bullet Master Mark 5. I installed Magma's 147gn molds for 9mm and used that instead of the Lyman mold I was using previously. These bullets came out beautifully! No wrinkles or blemishes that I would sometimes get with the Lyman (likely due to variations in temperature...?).
    I epoxy painted with just a light coat 2 times, cooking the coatings each time for 30min at 100Celsius, and made sure there were no paint globs or excess with each coating.
    Resizing was with Magma Research .358 die for the LubeMaster. When I measure the final diameter it is more like .357 than .358. Previously I was using a Lee .356 sizing die when I got the keyholing effect.
    Yesterday was our club comp and I had no keyholing at all. I have yet to check the accuracy. That will be next weekend.
    Very much appreciate the great information here. Summing up: slug the barrel to determine diameter, resize to .001-.002 over that as suggested.

  18. #78
    Boolit Mold
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    First post, hopefully it is cool to put it here because I've tried just about everything.

    I'd go through the whole long story but the important part seems to be that I am using lee tumble lube 125gr bullets and straight air cooled wheel weights. I have down loaded with Titegroup to 3.2grs and it seems like I am seeing keyholing in my rear view. But it still happens on occasion. Recently I started coating with Hi-Tek. Nothing changed. Still see the occasional keyhole.

    I've read until my eyes are bleeding and in the name of science - believing that bullet diameter is really the culprit as suggested here and by many others - I seated 3 bullets in empty cases. Two were straight out of the mold, untouched, measuring as big as .359. The third was sized .356 coated with Hi-Tek. The Hi-Tek bullet was pulled from the case and measured .355. The other two came out of the case measuring as small as .353! One case was flared as per the Lee instructions - the die just touched the shell holder. The second I screwed it in further for much more flare to really accept the .359 boolit. No difference - both came out of the case way too small.

    So the question I don't see addressed is, how do I stop this? Will a .357 carbide case sizing die work with 9mm brass? If so, would it actually be a solution? With the combination of my bullets dropping at .359 and a different bullet sizing die post Hi-Tek, I feel like it would be no problem for me to get properly oversized bullets PRIOR to seating them in a case. After they are seated, I believe, is where they become too small.

  19. #79
    Boolit Master
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    I believe that you are over crimping them when you seat your boollits , you want to measure your finished round across the crimp like .357 + the thickness of your brass on both sides , probably around .379 . You must make sure that the boollits can not be pushed back into the case , Test by pushing it against something with your thumb or the pressure will spike . Did you read the part about using a 38 Smith and Wesson powder through die expander instead of the 9 mm expander insert not a 38 special . That will expand the brass for your chubby boolits so you don't mash them down when seating . But I am not familiar with the tumble lube bullets

  20. #80
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by toallmy View Post
    I believe that you are over crimping them when you seat your boollits , you want to measure your finished round across the crimp like .357 + the thickness of your brass on both sides , probably around .379 . You must make sure that the boollits can not be pushed back into the case , Test by pushing it against something with your thumb or the pressure will spike . Did you read the part about using a 38 Smith and Wesson powder through die expander instead of the 9 mm expander insert not a 38 special . That will expand the brass for your chubby boolits so you don't mash them down when seating . But I am not familiar with the tumble lube bullets
    Ah ok. Yes I did read it but I didn't follow exactly (I think I read it in another thread and it's all run together at this point). By the time I came to this thread, linked from another, I was just looking for a current thread so I didn't dig up one of the thousand old ones I've been reading. Anyway, it can be put inside the 9mm die to replace the one it came with? Or am I misunderstanding?

    I guess I should add that I am not using the factory crimp die at all. I have, it just didn't make any difference and I have since abandoned it. Cartridges feed and cycle fine in 5 different guns so far.
    Last edited by cityofthesouth; 04-14-2016 at 11:28 PM.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check