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Thread: Setting up for boolits in a new 9mm

  1. #81
    Boolit Master robertbank's Avatar
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    Bill you maybe dealing with a very small base if info. If the majority of 9MM required a .357 or larger bullet accuracy with .355 jacketed would be atrocious. It isn`t. I would think .357 would be the largest anyone would have to go unless you are dealing with a WW11 or older gun from occupied Europe. I recently reduced my diameter to .356 in my guns and have found no difference in accuracy - CZ 75`s, M&P`s, STI and Tanfoglio.

    Take Care

    Bob
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#ff0000]Je suis Charlie

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  2. #82
    Boolit Mold
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    I had that problem with my Lee mold but never with my 124 RCBS.

  3. #83
    Boolit Master
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    So does anybody make a expander for the Dillon that will extend deeper into the case? The expander/powder funnel only extends a bit over 1/8" and when I seat my 120 gr cast bullets over the 1/2 the rounds get "lumpy" and won't go all the way into my chamber gauge.

  4. #84
    Boolit Master Whistler's Avatar
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    Relevant to the topic, some repetition and some additional info (originally posted in the Cast Bullets Facebook group):

    Quote Originally Posted by Whistler
    The main culprit with 9x19 mm is that the case swages the bullet.
    This has several causes and effects. 9mm has...
    1. Tight chambers.
    2. Large bores.
    3. Thick brass.
    4. Small bullet drops.
    5. Small expander dies.

    The way to get 9mm to work is to use brass with thin walls. G.F.L (Fiocchi), Winchester and Geco are known for this. (CBC (Magtech) and S&B are known for thick walls) With thin brass, use an expander die that opens the case to .357. Usually this works with a Lyman M-die with a .38 S&W plug. The .357 Mag expanders usually don't reach down far enough and are too long to flare the case mouth, though they will expand just fine.

    Take into account that many 9mm molds drop at .356. This will make the bullet useless for most 9mm work. You can powdercoat to gain 1-2 thousands.

    Then we have the expanders. They are .353 in the base and .356 in the top. If you have a .357 bore that needs .358 bullets and put a .358 bullet in a case that has been expanded to .356, chances are likely that the brass will swage the bullet to .356, causing gas leaks.

    Now say that you use a .357 expander. With most brass this will go fine when you put the empty case in a chamber gauge. However, when you seat a .358 bullet inside and crimp the case mouth, the brass will bulge right where the base of the bullet is. This will cause the cartridge to not chamber. Thus the need for thin brass.

    If you like to use heavy bullets like 140-160gn for competition where there is power factor involved, you either need a very good brand of brass with thin walls that allows the longer bullet to be seated deep, or you need a chamber with a looooong throat that lets you have a long OAL.

    Another thing to take into account is that 9mm is not a straight walled cartridge. It is tapered. The brass also gets thicker the lower to the base you get, so the inside is reverse tapered, thus getting narrower. This is why many, many, many 9mm bullet designs have a bevel base!
    Last edited by Whistler; 02-25-2016 at 03:56 PM.
    Shoot from a rest at 25/50/100 yards, then post your groupings. That is the only way to compare accuracy results.

  5. #85
    Boolit Master robertbank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul h View Post
    So does anybody make a expander for the Dillon that will extend deeper into the case? The expander/powder funnel only extends a bit over 1/8" and when I seat my 120 gr cast bullets over the 1/2 the rounds get "lumpy" and won't go all the way into my chamber gauge.
    Just one question while the cartridges won't chamber in your chamber gauge will they chamber in your gun? I have seen cases where cartridges would not chamber in a chamber gauge but worked fine in my guns.

    Take care

    Bob
    Last edited by robertbank; 04-25-2017 at 04:19 PM.
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#ff0000]Je suis Charlie

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  6. #86
    Boolit Grand Master

    MtGun44's Avatar
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    paul-h I know that post is pretty old, but for you and anyone else
    -adjust the Dillon powder measure body mount die downward to let the
    expander go deeper into the case. This is just a setup issue with your machine, that
    depth is fully adjustable. Should be expanding the case mouth about .005-.0010 flare,
    too, which is removed by the taper crimp at the last stage.

    Bill
    Last edited by MtGun44; 04-25-2017 at 05:58 PM.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  7. #87
    Boolit Bub
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    I go through a similar process, but was wondering if you think my chamber vs. loaded brass procedure is easier, at least for finding the largest usable loaded round diameter:

    If you have a full pin gauge set; I insert increasing sizes of pin gauges into the chamber of the removed barrel until I find the narrowest diameter of the chamber, which is determined by the largest pin that will reach the chamber end. My P226 with a Storm Lake barrel for example will eat a .380- pin but not quite a .381- pin. My brass is .0092 thick at the mouth so:
    .380 -.0184 =.3616 is max bullet diameter with light TC. My bore measures .347 lands and .3550 at grooves, so I am good to go with a .356 to .3575 boolit. I use boolits sized to .357 which is nice because my S&W 66 can use that size too. No leading.

    Jeff

  8. #88
    Boolit Bub
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    Nice post. I am a 9mm shooter and the post and follow ups are very useful.

  9. #89
    Boolit Bub
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    Perfect timing,thank you

  10. #90
    Boolit Master



    Crash_Corrigan's Avatar
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    I also had problems with gas leakage and the gun got really dirty after only 30-40 rounds in my Browning Hi-Power. I upped the powder charge of American Select carefully and found the sweet spot where every round would chamber and whalla no more sooty cases and a ended up with a clean gun that would fire hundreds of rounds without cleaning. The boolit was cast .361 and sized to .3575 with a gentle taper crimp...NO LEE FCD used.
    Pax Nobiscum Dan (Crash) Corrigan

    Currently casting, reloading and shooting: 223 Rem, 6.5x55 Sweede, 30 Carbine, 30-06 Springfield, 30-30 WCF, 303 Brit., 7.62x39, 7.92x57 Mauser, .32 Long, 32 H&R Mag, 327 Fed Mag, 380 ACP. 9x19, 38 Spcl, 357 Mag, 38-55 Win, 41 Mag, 44 Spcl., 44 Mag, 45 Colt, 45 ACP, 454 Casull, 457 RB for ROA and 50-90 Sharps. Shooting .22 LR & 12 Gauge seldom and buying ammo for same.

  11. #91
    Boolit Master
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    Old school method of determining the cartridge OAL

    Thank you Bill for all your efforts in helping folks get off on the correct methods for successful cast bullet reloading and fitting in 9MM. I am taking the liberty of adding a method of finding out the cartridge OAL that requires a minimum of math, and simple items one might already have on hand. This is an old and previously common method, but seems to have fallen from use.

    Cleaning rod/dowel method of finding cartridge OAL

    This is what I use for my guns to determine the max OAL and this eliminates any question of the crimp, incorrect case prep, or other operator induced error.

    This method works well on rifles and single shot pistols as well as Semi-autos. You can use a flat tipped cleaning rod, or flat tipped dowel rod. You will also need a sharp pointed pencil, a short dowel and a bullet sized but clean, of the type you are going to load.

    For Rifles
    Make sure the chamber is empty. Close the bolt, and be sure the firing pin is retracted into the bolt. Insert the dowel or cleaning rod and hold it against the face of the bolt. Mark the rod at the face of the muzzle. Remove rod, open bolt and remove it from the action. Insert the bullet into the breech and hold it snug into the rifling. While in that position insert the dowel or rod again, and with it firm against the nose of the bullet, mark the rod at the face of the muzzle.

    The distance between the center of those two marks is the max cartridge OAL for that rifle, with that bullet sized to that diameter.

    For Semi-autos
    Remove the barrel from the slide and make sure it is clean and free of leading or other debris in the barrel and chamber. The dowel or cleaning rod needs to be longer than the barrel. Hold the barrel, muzzle up, and place the barrel hood on a flat surface like a table top. Insert the dowel or rod from the muzzle and mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove the rod and insert the bullet you intend to use into the chamber and lightly press and hold it in place with the short dowel. Place the assy muzzle up on the flat surface. Insert the rod/dowel into the muzzle so it rests on the nose of the bullet and again mark the rod exactly flush with the muzzle. Remove and set the barrel aside. The distance on the center of the two lines is the cartridge OAL. Seat a dummy round to this length, or slightly shorter and begin to apply the taper crimp until the dummy passes the plunk test. This is the optimim cartridge OAL length for this bullet in this gun.

    You may need to adjust the seater to shorten the OAL if this does not feed from the magazine, but generally this will be a great fit. Remember, if you seat and crimp in one step, you might force a slight ridge ahead of the case mouth and that will screw up your seating.

    Caution! Some nose profiles, especially if powder coated, are contacting the lands at a shorter OAL than the same bullet that is sized and lubed. Seating shorter will build pressures higher than might be expected. Adjust your loads to be safe.
    Dusty

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check