I was stunned

[OBIII]

I think that the intent of the original post was to draw a comparison between what was 30-40 years ago, as compared to what is today. I went to public school through the 50's and 60's, and am convinced that I am a fairly smart fellah. While not having extensively studied the subjects, I know more about the Constitution, Bill of Rights, American History, etc. etc., than my grown daughters and sil's that graduated 6-10 years ago. The problem is not so prevalent in the rural areas, but in the large metropolitan areas it's a different story. Too many headlines (Not in the main stream media) about how kids are no longer being taught what I was taught. Instead, they are being taught self-esteem, tolerance, how capitalism is bad and America is worse, and the list goes on and on (let's not forget gay-tolerance). Parents are also a major part of the problem, especially considering that the majority (don't quote me) of families in the large metropolitan areas are probably single parent. I have no facts, but would think that the number of two parent families would be higher in the rural areas. Most teachers are not to blame, as they are told (forced) by their school districts as to what they are allowed and expected to teach. I was raised in the city (with frequent weekend trips to the relatives farms), was a GS-11 with the Federal Government making good bucks, when a friend asked if I would be interested in helping his dad out. His dad was growing tobacco on leased land, and could not find anyone willing to help him reap what he had sown. Without hesitation, I volunteered, talked one of my friends into helping, and drafted my half-brother as well. Needless to say, after two days I determined that I did not want to be a tobacco farmer. Pay? None, but more food than we could eat at meals, ice cold tea or water brought to us in the field. Value? Priceless, giving of ourselves to help out someone who needed it.
I don't think that anyone is trying to point out any particular group or problem, but it should be obvious to all of us that we do have a problem. It has been said that it takes a Village to raise a child. What we need to do is to get rid of the idiots in charge of the village and replace them with someone who believes in America, American Exceptionalism, Faith, and the Constitution. Until such a time, we will continue these debates.
(Oh, and I was also called a ^%%* hippie by my parents and their friends)

[watkibe]

My now-35 year old son loved that money he earned from bucking hay. He didn't mind it either that he got so muscular and strong, potential fight challenges faded away once they realized they were messing with a farm boy at the end of hay season.

[fatelk]

I think we're comparing averages and anecdotes. By no means did I mean to imply that ALL young people today are lazy, ignorant, whatever. I know many young people that are exceptional by any measure. I have two nephews that recently put in their time overseas, one as a Marine and the other as an Army Ranger. A couple of sharp guys; top grades in school, scholarships and family support, the world at their feet and they chose to serve their country.

There are millions like them, but we all know the other type too. Really there always has been in every generation. I just think that on average American kids tend to be a little more spoiled and ignorant now days than ever before; just my opinion and I've been wrong before.

Again, talking averages. Some refer to the baby boomer generation as a bunch of degenerate hippies; my folks are of that age and were not participants in any of that garbage, in fact they had no use whatsoever for Woodstock or dope-smoking hippies, just like millions of others their age.

I'm inclined to agree with Bret4207 about college. I think it's a huge waste of money for a lot of people; basically anyone who isn't serious about it. I never went to college when I was younger because I didn't know what I wanted to do and didn't think I could afford it. I sure saw a difference (in general) between the older folks going back to school because they have to, and the younger people fresh out of high school.

[home in oz]

A few days ago a co-worker came by to help my daughter and I load some scrap metal to take to the salvage yard. While we were talking he told me that he had helped his neighbor bail hay the weekend before because the neighbor could not get any other help. The neighbor has a 16 year old son , who also helped, but none of the sons friends or any high school age boys were willing to put up hay!
This is in a rural Central Illinois county, not some northern suburb. I couldn't believe it.

When I was in high school in the 70's bailing hay was a sought after job. You usually got a fair wage (I made $5 per hour in 79) lunch, and quite often the farmer's daughter would wander by during the day. While it was not unusual to lose 7-8 pounds during the day you would get it back by raiding the fridge and drinking tea at home. At 19 I felt like I was doing mans work for mans wages and was proud of myself.

My daughter is 19 and has been working her butt off in 90 degree heat helping me haul off junk and cut wood off of our building site. She doen't complain and is a cheerful worker. I am teaching her to run the chainsaw and she does a good job.

So my question is: What happened to boys raised during the 1990's?

They are wussified by being raised by their moms, grammas, and friends of those ladies.

[Rooster]

Be very careful with the broad brush strokes because you may conceal a treasure. I side with the youth of today as they have lacked the home/environmcental exposure that our generation has exprienced. One example, perhaps an outlier, is my oldest son. He joined the service in the Summer of '02 right after graduation. He toured 3 times with 5th Group in Iraq and to this day I've yet to hear one unsolicited complaint from my boy about his time over there (except for the smells). IOW don't think everyone, or for that matter most, of the next generation is deficient in humanity. I feel that there is hope for America and from my position a great pride in its citizenry (sp?).

[10x]

snip

So my question is: What happened to boys raised during the 1990's?

Nintendo generation. And wealthy parents.
Video games are like twiddling your thumbs in a reactive and organized manner.
Essentially there is generation of thumb twiddlers out there who missed out on social skills, have unreasonable expectations, and have not learned that work brings rewards, not to mention pays the bills. Their expectations, self value, expected rewards, and goals are not realistic.

[felix]

I have two 1990 high school educated sons which turned these video lemons into lemon aid. One is a communications and people manager in DC (Washington) and another is a computer systems manager in LR (Little Rock). Birth years 1985 and 1982 respectively. Yes, being "wealthy" as parents helps. Must have money for education, which includes travel money to obtain same. NEVER provide money for entertainment of any kind, and that includes just about everything a child wants. My sons starved in that arena and very well knew they would need to provide fun stuff for themselves after they were gainfully employed and had money to spare for it.. ... felix

[wiljen]

I agree Felix that $ helps. But the thing I see most lacking amongst parents of kids my own daughters age is INVOLVEMENT. These parents are so darned politically correct that they refuse to say anything bad about their child and it is pathetic.

Kids need motivation and they need goals and expectations that challenge them in order to succeed. This current trend of just allow them to bloom on their own is utter and shear rubbish.

My daughter knows our expectations of her in school are that she do her best and get help when she struggles. Our rules are if you get a C and you haven't asked for help in that subject, you are in trouble. If we have worked with her and she still struggles so be it. We are not all going to be great at everything but without encouragement and motivation, they wont be good at anything.

[Finster101]

I'm 50. Growing up in Kentucky I have bailed hay. Topped, stripped, and hung tobacco. Chopped nine kinds of firewood for my Grandmother. If a family member or a friend called and said they needed help I would be there ASAP for free. You could not pay me enough to work tobacco or hay for hire though. Oddly enough I still enjoy chopping wood.

James

[felix]

So correct, Will! A parent has to attentive enough to see a "spark" in the child, and encourage that spark/idea to the hilt, whatever it takes. It makes no difference if the parents like it or not. Let the child change his mind on his own, and be prepared as a parent to switch gears in like support. Might get expensive, if that what it takes to proceed. ... felix

[alamogunr]

Our two sons finished high school in the late 80's. We financed college with them working summer jobs. One went on to get a PharmD and is minority owner of a pharmacy provider. Makes more money than I ever did. Good for him!

Younger son got PhD and teaches university. Will never be rich but will retire with more money than his older brother.

The one thing they agree on is that neither had as much spending money in college as the other guys. I can't describe what we did to cause them to turn out well. I guess it is a combination of a lot of things. I would not pretend to give advice to anyone. I think everyone has to do what is right for them.

I feel for those kids whose parents are more involved with themselves than with their kids.

[blackthorn]

Survival in todays economy expects a two family income! Once folks work all day 5 or 6 days a week--it is just too easy to give the kid 10 bucks and let him/her go to the mall just to get them out of your hair. My boys were born in 1960 and 1962. Oldest turned into a hard worker and wound up with a Millwright's ticket as well as a welding ticket and along the way he has learned to fabricate metal as well. The younger son just floats through life doing as little as possible but he is a great kid just as his brother. Both hunt and fish and the youngest ties flies as well. The younger son had one child (my grandaughter) now aged 27. She had a rough start in school and was failing in grade nine. I (fortunately) was in a position to put her in Sylvan personel tutering and she got straightend out OK. She will be here Monday and we will go up to the lake for ten days or so like we do every year. I am sure looking forward to the trip!!! ON TOPIC---Not all kids are worthless, just some and the ones that are stick out like a sore thumb!!

[azcruiser]

When the guy at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave gave
all the money to the Wall street elite to help stimulate the economy . When he could have just given each American family $17,000.00 .The people /country did nothing ?? Think we will ever learn ? Hope we do soon cause it doesn't look good
Good old days used to get 33cent a load to unload hay into the barn about 200 bales but gas was 34cents a gal

[Cap'n Morgan]

It's a worldwide thing. The people of Yorkshire had a tough childhood as well, but they were HAPPY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

[Geraldo]

I'm 50. Growing up in Kentucky I have bailed hay. Topped, stripped, and hung tobacco. Chopped nine kinds of firewood for my Grandmother. If a family member or a friend called and said they needed help I would be there ASAP for free. You could not pay me enough to work tobacco or hay for hire though. Oddly enough I still enjoy chopping wood.

James

When I read the beginning of this thread I thought, "People got paid for this?" My dad farmed part-time, so he might have slid me a couple bucks now and then, but there was no hourly wage. On my great-grandfather's farm nobody got paid but him. I think I might have been paid once, by my uncle's brother, but it was only a one night job on second crop hay. Then again it might have been a favor we did for him.

I did get paid maybe $2 an hour to work collecting sap during the season. First day was a cool spring day and I thought, "This here is some easy money. Just a walk in the woods." After that the weather got ugly and the suck factor went up pretty high. Sometimes it was just me and the guy driving the tractor.

But who cared? I had enough to buy poppers to fish with and black powder or shotgun shells. I had life pared down to the essentials then, it's only gotten more complicated since.

[wallenba]

My generation (I'm 59) played outdoors all day, even in the rain sometimes. We got tired and dirty and laughed about it. When we were older, working hard jobs outdoors came naturally. Today's playground is the living room rug in front of an xbox or some other contraption ( I had to ask permission just to watch TV). Most kids I know today just won't do that kind of work anymore. Especially since daddys wallet opens so easily.

[John Ross]

I married the farmers daughter. Rewards are great considering we have been married for 11 yrs and have 7 kids.

Garbear

What do you do in your spare time?

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

So my question is: What happened to boys raised during the 1990's?

they are in thier 30s and have families and full time jobs

i think you meant the kids born in the mid to late 90s 2011-16=1995

first there are fewer of them than there were in the 70s there was a glut of 16 year olds in 1970 they were baby boomers

hay isn't regular work it's feast and famine work, you need kids that are eather going to work a farm all summer or be available for a few days when the time is right , the kids with skills even if it is just the skill of showing up on time and work while there , have jobs in fast food , retail , and many other places that would make them generally unavailable for hay. the kids that would be available are generally to lazy to work or their parents wouldn't let them do something as dangerous as hay.

also hay around her is almost all large square or round bales now so no kids unless they are the farmers kids running the tractor or end loader to move them.

in the 90s i worked my construction job , the owner had a farm and we put up hay also , I was breaking the labor laws from the day i started working for him at age 12 till the day i turned 18 even then we broke a few laws , but he knew my dad and that made it ok , fast forward 16 years laws have gotten more restrictive and getting sued a much greater reality. when i was 14 i was working for a lumber yard also in addition to construction I lost the end of my thumb working as a independent contractor so they didn't need to know my age , they made me a real employee real fast so i could go to the hospital on their dime as i was the one holding the board not the one who smashed the end of my finger off although he was also 14 these are risks that not many employers are willing to take any more.

i am not making excuses for the lazy kids out there , just saying, and your barking at the wrong generation

[10x]

they are in thier 30s and have families and full time jobs

i think you meant the kids born in the mid to late 90s 2011-16=1995

first there are fewer of them than there were in the 70s there was a glut of 16 year olds in 1970 they were baby boomers

hay isn't regular work it's feast and famine work, you need kids that are eather going to work a farm all summer or be available for a few days when the time is right , the kids with skills even if it is just the skill of showing up on time and work while there , have jobs in fast food , retail , and many other places that would make them generally unavailable for hay. the kids that would be available are generally to lazy to work or their parents wouldn't let them do something as dangerous as hay.

also hay around her is almost all large square or round bales now so no kids unless they are the farmers kids running the tractor or end loader to move them.

in the 90s i worked my construction job , the owner had a farm and we put up hay also , I was breaking the labor laws from the day i started working for him at age 12 till the day i turned 18 even then we broke a few laws , but he knew my dad and that made it ok , fast forward 16 years laws have gotten more restrictive and getting sued a much greater reality. when i was 14 i was working for a lumber yard also in addition to construction I lost the end of my thumb working as a independent contractor so they didn't need to know my age , they made me a real employee real fast so i could go to the hospital on their dime as i was the one holding the board not the one who smashed the end of my finger off although he was also 14 these are risks that not many employers are willing to take any more.

i am not making excuses for the lazy kids out there , just saying, and your barking at the wrong generation

Back about the mid 1970s the large round bale came out. As well as bale loaders that do not need a person stacking behind a baler. In the early 1970s my father in law had a bale thrower behind the baler and it put bails onto the bail wagon. In the mid 1980s my brothers in law had a stacker that would take bales directly off the baler and build a stack on a wagon. When full the wagon was towed to the bale yard and then it would tilt to vertical and they bales would be stacked without being touched by human hands. When my brothers in law told me that they were now stacking bales without any humans touching them, I asked "how is that any different than before?", they didn't see the humour.

[PatMarlin]

It's a sad, sad state of affairs today. Sad for youngsters in this country.

I could really teach some useful skills, and could use some help as well. Carpentry, lumber milling, metal fabrication, machining, auto work, home repair, but the exposure and possible liability is so high no one wants to take the chance anymore. Few trusts kids today.

I have helped kids in the past when I knew their parents. They have all gone on to be successful productive adults. I still keep my eyes open.