Blue dot and reloading

[mstrausbough]

I am having an issue with a batch of 12ga slugs. I cast 1 oz Lee slugs NP. got some once fired Universal hulls and WinAA12 wads.

Problem is that with the Blue dot I need 49gr. load. which is a chore with my load all due to no bushing for that volume. When i use my scale to get it exact the bulk is so much that I am having a hard time getting the crimp to stay down.

I am assuming that I need to switch powders to something that has lower grain count. I was thinking Red dot or a universal.

Anyone else ever had this issue with Blue dot?

[steg]

I never tried blue dot, but I am having luck with Unique..........

[sargenv]

49 gr of Blue Dot? Holy cow that's a LOT of Blue dot.. are you sure it's not 39 gr? I only use about 34 for a 1 oz Steel load that makes 1400 fps..

[longbow]

Yes indeed, that sounds like a lot of Blue Dot!

Well, I checked my Lee slug load data and sure enough 49 grs. of Blue Dot but under a 1 oz slug in Federal Gold Medal hulls.

I do not see a listing for Universal hulls.

If you are not aware, relatively small changes in components can yield large variations in pressure when reloading shotgun shells.

Best to use book recipes and stick to them. Get yourself some good shotshell reloading manuals and stick to published loads.

Longbow

[mstrausbough]

All Thanks for the input. I am going to hit up winchester also about the hulls.

[turbo1889]

Federal GM hulls have the largest internal capacity of just about any 2-3/4" 12ga. hull for all practical purposes and I wouldn't suggest using the same load data in a Winchester hull. If you want to use Blue Dot for a 1-oz wad-slug in a Winchester hull I would suggest a start charge of about 40 grains and a maximum never exceed charge of 45 grains and you may or may not be able to work your load up to the 45 grain charge level depending on what other components are in the mix.

That's my $0.02 take it for what it is worth and that isn't load data it's a charge range ballpark that I would be comfortable working in ~ YMMV

[diehard]

+1 for Turbo's advice.


For the 49 gr Blue Dot load using FED GM I get very good performance. I have taken it as low as 39 grains and had sweet spots occur between 39 and 40, and between 48 and 49. Nothing else has been stellar for me. I Think its VdoMemorie that suggests 44 grains for best accuracy.

For the 49 grain load listed for Remington Premier Hulls, I suggest you watch that one close. 9 of 9 I loaded popped out the primer ( one all the way) and all stuck the hull in my chamber (had to poke them out with a cleaning rod.) I wasn't smart enough to stop after the first one, as you can see. Now I use 39 grains for an estimated 1400fps ( a purely WAG)and do pretty well with it. NOTE: SEE MY RETRACTION OF THIS STATEMENT BELOW.

You can find that Rem load here:
I can't recall seeing any BlueDot loads for Win AA or Win Universal hulls that even approach that amount of powder.

[JIMinPHX]

I had pretty good luck with 18.5 grains of Green Dot in a Winchester hull with a 1 oz Lee slug. It was a pretty soft load. More on that here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86712

I agree with what others have said about 49 grains sounding like an awfully big charge of Blue Dot. I don't have any data that runs that hot for 1oz shot or slugs in a Win hull in my book. I do see that the loading data card that comes with the Lee slug does list 49 grains of BD in a Rem or Fed hull.

[jmsj]

mstrausbough,
I was looking at the literature that came with my Lee mold and the load that listed 49.0 gr. of blue dot used Remington STS/Premeir hulls.
I did try a few of that load recipe and did not have good results and the recoil was fierce.
Good Luck, jmsj

[diehard]

After running into the garage to check my notes, I need to make a make a correction on the post I made above:

For the 49 grain load listed for Remington Premier Hulls, I suggest you watch that one close. 9 of 9 I loaded popped out the primer ( one all the way) and all stuck the hull in my chamber (had to poke them out with a cleaning rod.) I wasn't smart enough to stop after the first one, as you can see. Now I use 39 grains for an estimated 1400fps ( a purely WAG)and do pretty well with it.

I should never do things from memory---too much rugby, boxing and general clumsiness has rendered my brain mushy at times.

Any way: The Rem STS load with 49 grains shot OK with no problems for me. I did much better with the 39 grain though, as stated.

However, I did have the aforementioned problem of popped primers and stuck cases on the same day with a REM STS load using 30 gr of WSF and a .690" RB. My problem--which obviously comes from too much pressure-- more than likely was the result of trimming the hulls too short., and roll crimping them very snugly. The loads were very short, but I shot them through my peep sighted Stevens single shot anyway.. DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!


Recoil? The 49 grain blue dot loads are a bit stiff, but not as bad as some I've tried. I honestly think the GM load, which I tried after reading a number of posts by James Gates of Dixie Slugs recommending that load, to be one of the most accurate and hardest hitting hunting loads I'v tried for both sizes of Lee slug. And I've tried quite a darned few of them. The most accurate in my hunting guns, however is by far all all the loads listed on the Lee sheet using Accurate AA#5. I have no idea why, but the ignition sounds a lot different than Blue Dot, and the trajectory seems flatter. I decided to buy some AA#5 also as a result of reading Gates' posts. Shot a whole can in a weekend! I'm all out right now, and will get some more this week.

For plinking, or SD/HD I think any 1 oz recipe using Green Dot and Unique is the best way to go. Mild recoil, great second shot follow through, etc.... Higher end loads (24-26 gr of either) might even be usable for hunting whitetail within 50 yards or so.. I just don't think they will have much energy past 30 yards or so, or at least not enough for my liking.

Back to the OP and his issue:

Problem is that with the Blue dot I need 49gr. load. which is a chore with my load all due to no bushing for that volume. When i use my scale to get it exact the bulk is so much that I am having a hard time getting the crimp to stay down.

I do believe it would be fair to say that most of us who load specialty ammo carefully hand weigh our powders. Variations due to bushings play hell with accuracy and can be dangerous if pressures exceed max. Use your scale, and you will be right on target (pun intended). As for crimps.....do you trim the wad petals even (or less) withe the top of the slug?If you are using a nitro card you might try removing it ( either go without, or add a .07" OS card--or even stiff cardboard) and then trimming the petals even with the slug. Works for me. .

Anyway.....happy shooting. I should stick to lurking.

[sargenv]

Federal GM hulls have the largest internal capacity of just about any 2-3/4" 12ga. hull

The now discontinued Activ All plastic hull was the hull that was ahead of it's time (IMO) and had MORE internal volume than the Fed GM hull ever did.. To give an example, BPI had a single load for the 2.75" Activ hull with 1 7/8 oz of lead.. try to do that with any other hull! 1 5/8 oz was the max load for any other hull at the time.. Happily there were a few ppl here that had some of these rare out of production hulls for me to procure.. Thanks again to those ppl who had them.

[eye shot]

The Active hulls are truly great hulls. It's to bad someone hasn't picked up the paten and start making them again. I'm down to a couple hundred left and they don't last forever.

[Johnch]

Federal GM hulls have the largest internal capacity of just about any 2-3/4" 12ga. hull

Federal makes a 2 3/4" hull that is called the " Federal 1 piece hull"
It has more case capacity than the GM , Allaint used to list loading data for it online

Sort of looks like a GM , but the base wad is dished to allow you to see maybe 1/3 of the primer sticking above the basewad

It is use in some 2 3/4" buckshot loads and some 2 3/4" steel shot loads

John

[Moonie]

I can attest to the 49gr BD loads being...stiff, and that is an understatement.

[sargenv]

The last I had heard was that some south american company had picked up the equipment and rights to the Activ name.. I'm not sure where I read it, just that is what happened and where they went.. I have pictures in a loading manual of Winchester AA's that were made without a brass head.. obviously it did not catch on..

[turbo1889]

I did say "just about any" as a disclaimer. But maybe I should have said "commonly available"?

Point I was trying to make was not to try to cram a load designed to fit in one of the hulls that has the largest internal capacity into one that doesn't unless you are looking for problems.

[mstrausbough]

To all of you that answered my post. Many thanks. I am making a trip to get some HS6 powder that has lower mass than the BD and give that a try. Also going to go to a WAA12 wad vrs the WAA12L I have now. I will try the few test loads I made since i know the gr is good and not maxed out. I will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again

Seuss

[JIMinPHX]

Any of the loads that I looked at on that card that comes with the Lee mold seemed like very much top end loads. I would use them with all with caution & only in strong guns with reasonable chokes. Some people have told me that you can shoot slugs out of any choke, but those loads are so hot that I'd have to give an extra bit of caution.

[Beagler]

Any of the loads that I looked at on that card that comes with the Lee mold seemed like very much top end loads. I would use them with all with caution & only in strong guns with reasonable chokes. Some people have told me that you can shoot slugs out of any choke, but those loads are so hot that I'd have to give an extra bit of caution.

I would agree the lee loads got some thump behind them. I cast all my lees out of straight WW and shot through a full rifle bore. Lee calls for pure PB for these i;m guessin so they make through a choke. WW slugs might be hard on a choke tube

[Sieveboy]

I have intermittent probems with Blue Dot not lighting up in anything but full-balls loads such as 50 grains and a .735 slug, or 35 grains with 2.25 ounce ten gauge loads. Anytime I try and reduce I get a bunch of odd reports and misfires. I'm going to stop using it and go with Unique or Red Dot which always light up no matter what the payload or wad pressure.