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Thread: Questions on basic theory and technique of paper patching.

  1. #61
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    The tips and advice given here have been outstanding, it has really shortened my learning curve. My intent with the thread was to get as much information as possible in one place, then apply it to one gun and see what I could make of it. The experimentation continues, hopefully I will be getting some chronograph data in the next few weeks, and shooting at longer ranges. I'll keep you all posted, I also have a paper gas check thread and a .45 Colt NEF thread going that I'm working on as well, plus a 45/90 PP project that will get some attention this weekend.

    Gear

  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    That is why we paper patch.
    That's one of the reasons! I simply enjoy rolling 'em. And the fact of being able to make a scrap bore actually shoot.

    I wonder how a black powder charge might work with a 245gr paper patched 303 Brit ..... ?
    I remember making black powder and actually shooting with it. It couldn't cycle my 9mm Star but shot accurately and it was quite nice in my 44 mag and very good in my 12ga. I never did try it in my 303 Brit (not that I can remember anyway).
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  3. #63
    Boolit Buddy
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    This is a great thread. I have to admit my post is mostly to bring it to the top of the list, so I can reference it easier. heh heh

  4. #64
    Boolit Man motorcycle_dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    I simply enjoy rolling 'em, And being able to make a scrap bore actually shoot.
    Well, that's where I'm at. I have newbie questions. Recommend a powder load, I have Varget, and some slower pistol powders, green dot, unique, H110 and Tite Group, Clays, etc.

    My goal is trying to make a worn out .303 barrel shoot. I have some 200gr bullets where the nose is smaller diameter than the driving bands. They were made for GC, Use it or no? It's a 5 groove rifling so how can I accurately size the projectile to the bore or groove?

    How far up to patch? How to properly seat and crimp the bullet? I hear they patch should just contact the rifling.

    I have another .303 that shoots the same lubed bullet well with 12.5gr of Grn Dot. That one has a tighter groove diameter..

    Any help appreciated.
    Dan, A fast bullseye shooter or slow action pistol shooter.

  5. #65
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Well, I'd try patching them without gas check and seating them into an unsized case neck. I'd patch them just up to the beginning of the ogive and see if they will just push into the muzzle. Changing paper thickness should achieve the desired diameter. Then I's seat them to the base of the neck using a starting load of Varget for j-words and see what happens. I think the minimum safe load for Varget is 75% load density but that may vary with boolit weight and I may be being over cautious. Work up the load until reasonable pressure is achieved, i.e. the primer is beginning to show that there has been some ignition as in a bit of flattening but not squaring of the edges. If the bore is rough from pitting it will need to be smoothed some by fire-lapping or other lapping. I prefer fire-lapping. Only the sharp edges of the rust pits need to be rounded. I use STP Oil Stopper on a lube pad to lubricating the patched boolits. Only a tiny amount is needed. The loaded round should be able to chamber and extract without the boolit being pushed into the case or pulled out and left in the throat. Test this with an empty and unprimed case. I insert the boolit into the throat and see it it can be just nudged to the neck base and pushed out again with a gentle tap from a cleaning rod. That would be my approach. It has worked for me with my pig gun so it might work again.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  6. #66
    Boolit Man Dirty30's Avatar
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    I have two questions with regard to paper patching. Is it critical to run boolits through a sizing die after paper patching? Would there be any benefit to paper patching HB boolits, or will it prevent obturation and decrease accuracy?
    If you're gonna shoot shoot, don't talk.

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Isn't that the original paper patch boolit design with a hollow base into which the twisted patch tail nub was squeezed?
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  8. #68
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    Dirty thirty, It is my belief that sizing the paper patched boolit is cheap insurance. I mean thats the size most of us have a sizing die for. sizing the slug is whole different ball of wax because you have to make or buy a custom sizing die for the lead core. So most of us have the die to size the patch and after all the work of getting the custom sizer, making the boolits, sizing the boolits, wrapping the boolits with the special paper, why not run them through the sizer to make sure they are all the same?
    Now as far as the hollow base goes, I believe that it could only help the PP booliteer bu making it easier to obturate the base of the boolit, as well as giving a lovely pocket for the tail of the patch to be pressed into by the sizer. I liked the idea so much, I built a special mold just for that:

    Last edited by goodsteel; 04-09-2012 at 10:18 PM.

  9. #69
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    Paul Matthews talks about that a lot in his book, the HB was typically used to fold the base into. I don't know if it helped obturation with smokeless powder (that's what the patch is for, right?) but with black powder and bore-sized finished patched diameter and soft lead I'd say the HB would sure help. I've never needed an HB for smokeless and harder boolits, but I'm also working with much higher pressures and bad things happen to boolit bases at muzzle exit if the base is weakened too much.

    As far as final sizing goes, I do it because that's how I apply lube to the patch (lots of heat to thin the regular boolit lube I use so it won't rip the paper), and it gives me the warm fuzzies knowing that there's one more variable that I have under control. You don't NEED to if your paper selection gives you the final size you need all by itself.

    Goodsteel, once again I envy your talent and access to tools. What caliber are those?

    Gear

  10. #70
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    I think they drop @ .300"? Something like that. I didn't get a chance to experiment with them very much.

  11. #71
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    Re: what popper and nanuk were talking about using wood fiber (how much?) in a known good lube, what about mixing let's say rasp shavings with LLA. I use the dipping method with tumble lube type bullets and cut off the excess with an unsized case cookie cutter style, so this might leave enough fiber material in the grooves to achieve the desired result. I just might try this after I hear what others say. Goatwhiskers

  12. #72
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    Goatwhiskers, I'd use a much as possible in the lube, and let it soak in melted lube for a good while to stabilize the mix. I've made some with rock maple filings and Felix lube but haven't got a round to shooting it yet.

    Gear

  13. #73
    Boolit Mold
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    Contradiction??

    Guys,
    I hope I'm not breaking any rules or upsetting someone, but this is really bothering me.
    I have been casting for years, but now that ammo is sky-high, I feel the need to try paper patching for hunting bullets.
    The problem...... Ever since day one, I have read and been told not to eat, drink or smoke or put your paws near your mouth when working with lead compounds.
    Nearly everything I read says wet the patch with saliva and roll onto the base of the bullet.
    Am I missing something here??
    I am ( by some accounts) already short a few marbles. I don't want to risk losing the few I have left.
    Thanks for any informed input.
    2manygunz

  14. #74
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Well, I sure don't wet patches with saliva. Not only do I not want any more lead in my blood, I just don't have that much spit! I just use an old tuna can with some water in it. I run the patch through the water, squeegee the excess off with the other hand, and wrap using a cigarette roller. Dump the water out when you're done or the can will rust and you'll need to find a new one eventually.

  15. #75
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    2 manygunz no I don't think you are missing something.

    I use a small dish to wet my patch some use a sponge like a stamp wetter at the post office used to use.

    I wash my digits before doing something else...sometimes..if I remember correctly that is.

  16. #76
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    I use a small glass condiment dish and distilled water (our water has more calcium and iron in it than water!), and with some papers it helps to add a pinch of baking soda to the water to help soften the paper.

    When wrapping, I use a board, lay the patch on it with the tip overhanging, and squeegee off the excess water by wiping and smoothing the patch with my fingers. Timing the wrap also helps, if the patch soaks too much or you wait too long it can disintegrate.

    Gear

  17. #77
    Boolit Buddy myfriendis410's Avatar
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    Here is the load shot with as-wrapped and no lube or sizing. It's typical of the accuracy I have been getting with this bullet.
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    Life's too short to shoot an ugly gun.

  18. #78
    Boolit Buddy myfriendis410's Avatar
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    So; I did a couple of things. Tried RL7 shooting for a velocity between 1,500 and 1,600 fps. I used as-wrapped sketch paper without running through the sizer, being careful to get a TIGHT wrap. I coated the paper patch with automotive wax and allowed it to dry. The load was seated to the lands with a very light taper crimp on the bullet.

    See the target attached. Velocity was 1,510 fps average.

    (n.b. the two above posts were recommended for attaching to this sticky. Hope it helps)
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    Life's too short to shoot an ugly gun.

  19. #79
    Boolit Mold
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    Been patching for a year or so. First with a 45-70. My falling block seems to like the cast/swaged core to be .002 or more over bore size. Have wrapped .452 and .454 and both shoot well. I've had good luck wrapping 9# onion skin; two wraps. With a good boolit, the gun doesn't seem to dislike any charge, but has shot best with 350PP - 15g Unique, 425 Ranch Dog boolit - as cast, 350@425PP - 30g 4759. Finally got a 30 cal PP boolit to shoot well in a Savage and sporterized Enfield by going to a cast .311 boolit, sizing it down a little and wrapping - then sizing back to .311. My experience has been better with oversized boolits rather than ones where the slug is only .001 or .002 over bore. I'd like to hear what some of the rest of you have found successful. Currently working on PP for 8mm and 30-30, but not satisfied. Partof the problem is that the barrels are just a wee bit oversized. Saltriver73

  20. #80
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    These posts are gonna get me into trouble. I'm going to give this PP a shot (pun intended).

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check