Pet loads requested for .357 Magnum

[ShrinkMD]

I finally got to the range with my new 627 PC 5" V-comp. It was great fun shooting it, I think I may have a new favorite. Anyway, here is some data:

Starline brass (new), 158 LSWC (Dardas bhn 16), Federal SPP

These are only 10 shot samples because I was running out of time and had to get home for barbecue!

13.0 gr
High: 1196
Low: 1111
E.S.: 85
Ave.: 1142.2
S.D.: 25.4
95%: 20.2

13.5 gr
High: 1234
Low: 1151
E.S.: 83
Ave.: 1190.6
S.D.: 20.4
95%: 16.2

Can I shoot the 13.5 gr load all the time, or is it too hot? It was really, really loud with that comp on. I was doubled up for hearing protection with plugs and muffs and it was still loud. I really enjoyed shooting it, though.

Funny, the most accurate load was the same bullet in 38 special cases and Bullseye 2.8 gr. Here is the data for that:

High: 689.9
Low: 659.1
E.S.: 30.8
Ave.: 672.5
S.D.: 6.4
95%: 2.7

I know that low SD doesn't always mean better accuracy, but this load was incredibly accurate and easy to shoot. Like a bigger 22lr, but lots of fun. I enjoy the magnums as well, but I think alternating between these powder puffs for pure accuracy and the 13.5 2400 magnum load would make for a pretty fun day at the range.

I think my bottom feeders may sit in the safe a while. This gun is amazing...

[MtGun44]

Here are a couple.



Same powder charge on this one.



These are fairly hot loads, near max. Similar results with these loads in my Ruger
Security Six with a 6" bbl.

Note that super hard alloy and GCs are not required for accurate, no leading full power
loads. Good design, good fit and good lube will do the job.

Bill

[zxcvbob]

I am curious what the sweet spots are for light, medium, and heavy .357 magnum loads are with 158 gr lswc bullets? I am interested in Bullseye, Unique, and 2400, in magnum cases.

I am searching for prior threads here and elsewhere, but since people's 44 mag advice was so good I thought it would be good to start the thread here.

I like 8 grains of Herco. Good economical "medium" load.

AA#7 is also really good for near-full-power loads but I don't recall exactly how much I used. Might be 11.0 grains but I'm not sure. Don't trust me on that; look it up.

Lately I've been shooting lots of 148 grain DEWC's with 7.0 grains of WSF, but that's not what you asked about.

[maglvr]

The man forgot more about the 357 than most of us could ever hope to remember.


.357 Medium Loads
Bullet (Grs.) (Type) Velocity(fps)

Lyman 158-gr 358156 13.5 2400 1200

Lyman 150-gr. 358156 HP 13.5 2400 1250

Lyman 150-gr 358156 HP 7.0 Unique 1250

Lyman 170-gr 358429 6.0 Unique 1150

Lyman 158-gr 357466 5.0 Red Dot 1000


.357 Heavy Loads
Bullet (Grs.) (Type) Velocity(fps)

Lyman 150-gr 358156 HP 15.5 2400 1500

Lyman 158-gr 358156 15.0 2400 1450

Lyman 150-gr 358156 HP 15.0 4227 1400

Lyman 158-gr 158156 8.0 Unique 1400

Lyman 150-gr 358156 HP 14.0 Sharpshooter 1600

Lyman 158-gr 357466 14.5 2400 1450

Lyman 170-gr 358429 14.5 2400 1400

Lyman 170-gr 358429 13.5 H2400 1350

START LOW AND WORK UP!!!

[ShrinkMD]

Maybe I switched the box or something an shot the 13.5 load twice, or I screwed up somewhere. I reshot some of the leftovers from last time and added in some new ones. It was about 85 or so degrees out today, about the same weather as last time.

13 gr
High: 1161
Low: 1095
E.S.: 66
Ave.: 1117.8
S.D.: 23.6
95%: 18.8

13.5 gr
High: 1217
Low: 1172
E.S.: 45
Ave.: 1193.6
S.D.: 12.9
95%: 10.3

14 gr
High: 1219
Low: 1167
E.S.: 52
Ave.: 1188.8
S.D.: 13.5
95%: 6.7

14.5 gr
High: 1292
Low: 1231
E.S.: 61
Ave.: 1257.4
S.D.: 16.3
95%: 8

So unless I made an error picking out the rounds to shoot, or dropping the powder
charges incorrectly, how on Earth can the 14 gr load shoot the same or slower than the 13.5 gr, but then the 14.5 load jumps up nicely to 1257?

Does this sound right? Again, as in the post above, these are Starline brass (new), 158 LSWC (Dardas bhn 16), Federal SPP, and the same lot of 2400. Fired out of the same gun, 627 PC 5" with V-comp.

[MtGun44]

Sounds like an error somehow. Should be a fairly predictable smooth change in velocity
when you are not at the extreme limits of a powder's useful range in the cartridge.

Bill

[ShrinkMD]

Just had a thought: these loads are with 0.357 sized lead bullets, and not 0.358 (I ordered incorrectly the first time). Could that explain the lower velocities?

[RMc]

H4227 Extreme and the Beartooth Bullets' 185 FNGC:

Temp: 78F

Distance to chronograph screens 10 ft.
Six round velocity test.

S&W 686, 4 inch barrel, .357 Magnum

185 BTB FNGC, Sized .358,
13.0 grains of H4227,
New Starline .357 Magnum brass,
Winchester Small Pistol Magnum primers:

1103 FPS average, 27 fps extreme spread, Low 1091 FPS , High 1118 FPS.

Bullet length .728" and 1.566" oal seated in 1.278" Starline cases.

This is an accurate, less that maximum and comparatively soft recoiling load that leaves surprisingly little powder residue. This has become my favorite .357 load.

Hodgdon's 2010 Basic Reloading handbook, shows a maximum charge of 13.7 H4227 under a 180gr Nosler Partition.

Hodgdon has discontinued H4227.
Current lots of IMR4227 are identical per Hodgdon.

[nitro-express]

On another sight I posted this:

"357 mag load with Red Dot. For my SAA NF

I was browsing the net, looking for load suggestions for my 357. The 357 is not what I'd like to categorize as a cowboy caliber, and the SAA NF with a 7 1/2" barrel doesn't fit the typical combat revolver definition. I was searching for a load that would help define my SAA NF, a fit, a gun that shots like it looks.

My search led me to a Skeeter article and in it he listed a medium load using Red Dot. I just happened to have about 2 pounds of Red dot that my brother gave me. He was talking to his neighbor about shooting, and how his brother (me) reloads for him, and his neighbor says that he used to reload and gives him some powder in a coffee tin. It has a label on it that said "Red Dot". Considering the circumstances, I'd normally just dispose of this powder, but I examined the powder and it had the "Red" dots in it, and there was about 2 pounds of it.

Bottom line, I loaded up some "Skeeter" ammo, with the Speer SWC HP instead of the Lyman 357466. We (my son and I) fired off a box, and I'll be loading some more. Clean burning, no leading, accurate enough to be a keeper and inexpensive to load. We went through a box in no time at all. I went 5 for 5 on the gong at 35 yds, although it didn't really ring it like a rifle does, soft(ish) lead at slow speed.

Before loading this load I checked other sources, to confirm it was a safe load. I referenced a 1978 Hercules manual, Speer #9, and Lee #2. It is not a top load, Skeeter wouldn't have listed it if it didn't have some merit, a 1000 fps load in a list of 1200 fps loads.

See the article @ http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=30

This load defines the gun, a gentle but powerful load (it meets or exceeds a 38 special +P or FBI load) and our local Sporting goods store stocks the bullets, Red Dot is available ( the 2 pounds will take some time to "burn" at 5 gr. a pop) and small pistol primers are also available. I'm presently using a CCI 500, and will probably try some others, Skeeter did not specify which primer he used, it suspect it didn't really matter.

I like the Speer SWC HP, it comes in a box of 500, they are well made, perhaps less than a dozen were misshapen or odd looking and they are 0.358 in diameter with a tough coating, similar to what is on 22 LR lead ammo. Very good product for those of us that don't cast our own bullets. I haven't tried them on game but they do a number on jugs of water and rip the **** out of the 2x4"s we use to attach our targets to. I don't as a rule endorse products on forums, but these are good."

http://www.coltforum.com/index.php

[Ed_Shot]

Red Dot/Promo 5.0 gr under any cast 140 to 160 gr boolit is an fine and economical plinking load.

[zxcvbob]

4.5 grains of Red Dot (Promo), 148 grain cast wadcutter, any small primer, 1.35 or 1.36" OAL.

[detox]

4 gr of Bullseye under RCBS or Lyman 158 Cowboy boolit (800 fps). 1 lb Bullseye goes a long way, but hard to meter in my standard RCBS powder measure (i must throw short then trickle remainder). I need a smaller pistol powder measure for better results.

Tin Star is a verygood powder with low velocity spreads and meters well in my standard RCBS powder measure. 5.2gr under 158 Cowboy boolit 800fps. Its a bulkier n320 that takes up more case volume. Very little reloading data for this powder.

Trail Boss is another goody that meters well and takes up more case volume..

[pmeisel]

I have been using 6 grains of Unique, and 14 grains of 2400, under 158 grain LSWC for quite some time. Both more accurate than I am. The Unique load is fairly mild in my Python. The 2400 load, while not as hot as I could load it, has plenty of punch and shoots very well.

I am thinking of trying 8 grains of Herco once I find some Herco!

[Rex]

After years of trying to find a load that made up for old eyes and shaky hands, 99% of my shooting is done with 6 grains of Unique in a .38 special case and 1% with 14 grains 2400 in a .357 case. These with cast bullets from 358477 or 358665 molds.
Having said that I am finding that 7 grains of HS-6 in a .38 special case with the 150 grain 358477 is very good as well. My one and only handgun is a 4" S&W 686.

[Char-Gar]

I have been around the 357 Magnum for many years and Skeeter's loads were floating around before they were Skeeter's loads. He just put in print what was out there. He did not do any load testing or development, he just accepted and printed fairly common loads of the day.

That said...Those 2400 loads he wrote about are hotter than the hinges of hell! Folks would be well advised to back those down. They are red line for sure and for certain.

I shot Bill Jordan's "Combat Magnum" (1959)with a load of 16/2400 over 358156 HP and I know other Border Patrolman that used the same load. I don't know how many loads of that a K frame can take, but it going to be in the thousands. Those handguns were designed for the occasional use of full snort Magnum ammo, but regular practice use with the 38 Special. The bottom line is, just because somebody did it because it might be a life or death situation, does not mean we should go to the range with boxes of that stuff on a regular basis.

When I got my own Model 19 in 1965, I never went about 13/2400 in that K frame. I did run the N frames hotter, but would not do that today.

With a 150 to 160 grains SWC, I would under no circumstances go above 14/2400 with 13 being more to my liking. In the 38 Special case 11/2400 would be top end with 10 being allot more reasonable.

Now, I know some of you boys have done the Skeeter thing and still have all your eyes and fingers. I have done it as well, but it sure isn't smart.

Before some of you start thumping the "Lawyer Drum", this isn't about liability, it is about PRESSURE, hot gas don't you know! It isn't about Hercules vs. Alliant 2400, it is about using good sense. If you want to drive a bigger nail, use a bigger hammer!

[pmeisel]

6.5 Unique for light practice, 14 2400 for field use. Getting ready to try 800X and Lil Gun as well.

[1Shirt]

Lots of good recommendations for lite/med loads. My preference is for Unique as many suggested. For full power loads I long ago settled on 358429 over 13 gr of 2400.
1Shirt!

[MT Gianni]

I looked at a copy of Handloader recently. Mike V had an article on heavy loads in the 38 special. Some he did not shoot as he did not consider them safe in a titanium J frame only in a heavy frame 38. The J frame was chambered in 357. What firearm 357 loads are shot in makes a lot of difference. When the 357 went on Safari with Maj? D. Wesson after it was introduced it killed Moose and Elk. Many of those 35,000 + cup loads would be perfectly safe in an N frame as they were then or a Blackhawk. They may not do as well in a light framed Taurus.

[Echo]

Well - Dang - I hate to be this way, but I load Magnums to magnum specs. If I want to shoot popcorn in my BH, I shoot 38's. My load is Skeeters load - 15 gr 2400 under a 358156 (or Lee equivalent) GC'd.

[Harter66]

For gee wiz info the original 357 SAMMI spec was 45K . Don't beat me yet I saw this mentioned in I believe the 5th edition Speer book and several references on the ultra reliable WWW. Knowing that allows for some of the HOT loads of yester-year vs the mild loads we see today. Which is why as responcible handloaders we keep our old favorites right next to a new current reference. Its also why we don't shoot +P+ 257 Roberts in 93 an 95 Mausers but its ok in M77s. Slightly off track for demonstration reasons.

Char-Gar, You nailed your reference dead on regarding the top loads.
Mt Gianni, Your reference is also practical in real application.

The Pre-80' 357s will likely run forever on 35kpsi loads but the cute little scandium/titainium pocket guns would be short lived w/1974 full tilt 45kpsi loads. Backing the 16gr Skeeter loads down to 13gr is just good sense especially if you're loading for the lighter frames or post 2000 yr model guns. Always happy to muddy the waters.