1910 Rolling Block Question

[Ed in North Texas]

Earlier this year I bought a 1910 7mm RB in really nice shape. It has none of the usual "hallmarks" of a military issue weapon. I know Remington didn't have any standard way of marking the RBs as to model and military markings would have been up to the country buying to specify. This 1910 doesn't have any national, or military type, marking. What is the consensus, do I have a commercial Model 1910 in 7mm?

[leadman]

I have a book on the RBs. Can you post pictures?

Many of these old rifles were sold in military dress and sporterized condition in the 60s.

Be aware the 7mm Mauser cartridge that was chambered in these was not the same SAAMI cartridge of today. The headspace will probably be longer unless someone has set the barrel back.
Not a problem as you can fire-form with Cream of Wheat and then size so the shoulder is not set back.

[Ed in North Texas]

I remember the racks and racks of RBs in the gun shop during the early 60s. That was before 63, cause I went in the Army in 63 and didn't return to the US for PCS until Dec 66. This one is not a "sporterized" one, and bears no military or national markings (other than the Remington patent info and address. Can't send pics because I'm escaping the Texas heat on the shores of Lake Ontario and I don't have the rifle with me.

I'm very much aware of the 7mm chamber issue with these rifles. I plan (when I get back to TX) to take some .270 cases I have and form them into cases for this rifle only (as I have other 7x57mm rifles, I will avoid getting the cartridges mixed up by having cases with a totally different headstamp - and [obviously] I don't have a .270). I have an RCBS case forming die in 7x57mm bought when -06 cases were really dirt cheap and 7x57mm were not common.

Thanks for the answer.

[Buckshot]

............At time of your Rem RB, and in that general time frame of 10-15 years after the turn of the 19th century, Remington was having a hard time moving them in any numbers at all. To anyone. They primarily played to the S. American countries for military sales, and made a big deal of the simplicity and ruggedness of the rifles, in addition to their much lower cost vs the more desireable Mausers.

I have a M1897 and it's original bbl was stamped "7mm Span", just ahead of the handguard. It had the M97's slidding extractor. The barrel was trashed and unuseable. Through a rather long story I'd contacted Sharon Barrel company and was told they had an original Rem RB 7x57 barrel they'd taken off a M97 someone had in for a conversion into a BPCR for silhuette use. At the time that sport was really hot. I bought the barrel and it was like brand new but took the rotary extractor. My gunsmith milled it for the slidding extractor and screwed it on. On it the barrel was simply stamped "7mm".

Not too long after that I was high bidder on another M1897 Rem RB on Auction Arms. While it looked exactly like my 1897, this one had the bent breechblock lever as on the M1902's. The rifle's action had the same overall looking condition, so if the breechblock was a non-factory replacement it had been done long enough past that it'd gained the same appearence as the rest of the action. It had the rotary extractor and it's barrel was stamped "7 SM". I take this as 7 Spanish Mauser. I sold this to a buddy and it shot quite well.

Later another shooting buddy was visiting one of his kids and in the town was a gunshop he stopped into. As luck would have it he bought a textbook M1902 Rem RB that looked like it'd just come out of a crate. It had the correct 1902 type ladder sight with cosmoline squishing out from under the ladder spring, around the cleaning rod and forend band and on the sides of both the hammer and breechblock with rotary extractor. The action had very noticeable but somewhat dulled case colors on the action. It's barrel was stamped "7mm Span" just like the original barrel on my 1897.

I believe that during this time Remington was merely putting together rifles from parts on hand, and selling them to anyone who'd buy them. IIRC they came out with a sporter they called the M1905 (I think a 24" bbl) , and it was available in several calibers, military and sporting. Remington also sold France quite a few rifles early on in WW1 chambered for the 8mm Lebel. That was probably their last hurrah .

.................Buckshot

[doubs43]

I believe that during this time Remington was merely putting together rifles from parts on hand, and selling them to anyone who'd buy them..................Buckshot

Quite likely true. Manufacturers don't waste even the smallest items if they can be used. When Winchester developed the Model 52 rifle in the late teens of the 20th century, they used some parts that they had on hand originally made for rifles in the 19th century. Remington likely did the same thing with their Rolling Block rifles to clean up existing parts inventory.

[Ed in North Texas]

Quite likely true. Manufacturers don't waste even the smallest items if they can be used. When Winchester developed the Model 52 rifle in the late teens of the 20th century, they used some parts that they had on hand originally made for rifles in the 19th century. Remington likely did the same thing with their Rolling Block rifles to clean up existing parts inventory.

No doubt. The 1910 was the last planned model of the RB (well, until Remington came out with their new one a while back). Differences between the 1902 and the 1910 was the redesigned rear sight, front sight band and logo change to Remington UMC. The French Lebel 8mm/Russian 7.62x54mm chambered RBs are sometimes called the Model 1915. The French rear sight was changed to >2000 yards. And I thought the 1900 yards on the 1910 was wishful thinking!

[azcruiser]

I remember going into inter arms co Alexandria VA in 1960 +_ seeing them stacked on pallets like cord wood .Think the price was under $14.00 --the good old days --most I saw were from Norway -Sweden in 7mm and a lot of 43 egyptians

[Ed in North Texas]

I remember going into inter arms co Alexandria VA in 1960 +_ seeing them stacked on pallets like cord wood .Think the price was under $14.00 --the good old days --most I saw were from Norway -Sweden in 7mm and a lot of 43 egyptians

I remember those days, but the 7mms were Latin American. The Scandinavian countries never used the 7mm. I could be mistaken, but I believe the only "small bore" rolling block issued by a Scandinavian country was 8x58mmR (Sweden converted No.1 muskets). The .43 was either .43 Egyptian or .43 Spanish (used by Spain and many Latin American countries).

[leadman]

I have one of the Swedish RB that was converted to 8 X 58 RD. It was also sporterized. The heat treat to the receiver, replacing the hammer and breech block, replacing the barrel were done in 1891.

Shoots very well with the Buffalo arms stretched and reformed 45-70.

At one time I had a 7mm RB that had BATJAC engraved in the side of the buttstock. The gun was a real *** though. Found out it was a prop gun for John Wayne's movie company. Very rusty, probably from the black powder blanks.

[Ed in North Texas]

I have one of the Swedish RB that was converted to 8 X 58 RD. It was also sporterized. The heat treat to the receiver, replacing the hammer and breech block, replacing the barrel were done in 1891.

Shoots very well with the Buffalo arms stretched and reformed 45-70.

At one time I had a 7mm RB that had BATJAC engraved in the side of the buttstock. The gun was a real *** though. Found out it was a prop gun for John Wayne's movie company. Very rusty, probably from the black powder blanks.

I have read that the Swedes were converting the RBs to 8x58 even after they had switched their army to the 6.5x55. Your RB proves that. The conversion (sporterizing) was done before they reissued the rifles to their game warden/forest ranger equivalents (and probably other sundry government civilian jobs.

Is your RB a Husquevarna original? Husky had license from Remington to build the RB, and I believe did the conversions to 8x58R too.

That Batjak prop should have been worth something as movie memorabilia.

[saint_iverson]

The RB's were designed originally to compete for a 45 or so "cartridged" calibered rifle post Civil War, unfortunately (IMHO) the Springfield Trapdoor ended up taking the contract for our now famous 45/70. Some say it was some shady dealing behind closed doors to push the Springfield through over the Remington RB's. I personally feel the RB's are a simpler and more user friendly piece, but I wager many on here would side with the Trapdoor, same arguement almost 150yrs or so later . Anyways, to try and make up for the lacking US Prop. contract Remington scattered their sticks into the global wind and got millions of rifles sold the world around. 7m/m was one of the earliest necked cartridges and many nations latched onto it early and thrived until the '06/8mm pressures rolled through the door 1900-1910. I have 2 RB's both in 7mm, they could be bought by the POUND back in the 50's-70's and normally have been sporterized, or rechambered, or otherwise non-original. Some good General Issue ones can still be found though so if you see one, take a good look! Problems, early corrosive primings, peoples' fears of the gun since the chamber is right in front of your eye...

I enjoy the nostalgia and simplicity of the pieces and it disappoints me that new RB's are only chambered for the 22LR when the action was made for so much more.

Not sure if that was what you wanted to know, but I just felt like sharing

[bydand]

I also remember when Rolling blocks were cheap.
"Too soon ve gets old und too late ve gets schmart"
Also remember $40 1903 Springfields
$35 M1917 Colts
$9.95 Lee Enfields.

[Ed in North Texas]

Saint iverson,

I think the "standard reason" for selecting the Trapdoor is probably the truth. Not only did it satisfy the "Not Invented Here" part of the Army board, having been developed by the Springfield Armory (lest we forget, it was government owned and run until recent times), but it satisfied the cheapskates who didn't want to spend much money. The Springfield was in-house and kept the Springfield Armory busy at a time when the government would otherwise have had to pay upkeep and maintenance with little work to be done.

bydand,

Did you have to remind me? I'm still kicking myself over trading my $17 and change plus shipping DCM M1 Carbine for a typewriter to do term papers in college.

[bydand]

The U.S. was not the only cheapskate. The British Snider was also a conversion of muzzle loaders.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Most countries with a standing army converted their front stuffers to cartridge rifles. I have a breachblock for what I think is an Austrian Werndle. It is similer to the Snider.

[mroliver77]

If you look up Dutchmans posts I don't think there is anything about RB he has not covered. He also has a nice websight with tons of info.

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/rb.html

Jay