Lee Enfield Bolt-Head Metal Composition?

[Vulch]

Setting back an Enfield barrel was actually a fairly common gunsmith alteration in both Austraila and suprizingly in France.

French gun laws allowed civilians to own military rifles only if it could not chamber a military cartridge still in use.

Partially correct. French Law permits rifles in ORIGINAL calibre under certain number limitations, if to be used in matches etc.

The collectors got around this by having the barrel set back to shorten the chamber to 54 mm and a ".303 Sporting" cartridge identical to the .303 British other than case length and position of the shoulder was developed.

A Similar cartridge called the 7.7X54R was developed in Australia, and besides the set back Enfields it was also used in a single shot conversion of the FN FAL.

I would hardly call the Lithgow single shot target rifle a conversion of the FN FAL (we call the semi-auto military rifle an SLR, NOT FN FAL). The single shot rifle bears VERY little parts from the SLR. It's more a new made rifle than a conversion. I take it you have never fired or disassembled one?

The limited ban on military cartridges in some districts of australia was not nationwide and near as I can tell lasted for only a short time.

Thankfully. When you see a No6 or a SMLE III* HT done to 7.7x54R, it makes you cry. I have seen BOTH!

[Multigunner]

I never mentioned sideplay previously. Sideplay is a sure indication of more likely an ACTION problem than a bolt problem.

Gee as if I couldn't tell the difference after examining the bolt head and confirming that it was the fit of the bolt head itself that was the problem.
When you hold the bolt in your hand and can see the sideways movement theres no mistaking it.

There is no excessive wear to the insides of the bolt way directly to either side, just the slightest at the points I mentioned earlier ,and the fit of the guide rib to the guide rib slot is very good, and no amount of slack between guide rib and its track would have had any effect on movement of the bolt head or bolt body when the bolt has been rotated into battery.

Theres very little contact surface between the bottom of the bolt and the receiver because if the cocking piece track and the opening of the left locking recess. Theres only about a 1/4 inch wide section directly in front of the opening, so any wear there reduces sopport for the bolt body as it moves forawards. Theres no positive support from the lefthand side wall ahead of the charger bridge because of the angled channels and nothing but the leverahe of the hand on the bolt knob to push the bolt body towards it. The bolt head guide rib contacts only the bolt head, it exerts no guidance on the bolt body itself amd does little to limit horizontal movement of the bolt head for that matter.

The single shot rifle bears VERY little parts from the SLR. It's more a new made rifle than a conversion. I take it you have never fired or disassembled one?

No reason to expect that I would have. Photos I've seen do show that theres little remaining of the FAL/SLR in that rifle.

Since theres no longer a real purpose for the 7.7x54r I would hazzard a guess that these are collectors items of some interest.

When you see a No6 or a SMLE III* HT done to 7.7x54R, it makes you cry. I have seen BOTH!

All part of the history of the rifle, and likely a rare modification.
A good possibility that having been a target or competition rifle the setting back and cleaning up chamber and throat may have given those rifles a new lease on life. It was common for U S target shooters to set back a barrel that had an eroded throat and freshen the chamber, many of Harry Popes barrels were set back many times.
When single base or low nitro double base powders are used wear tapers giving a microscopic choke effect that reduces blow by and makes for more consistent velocities. The grip of the lands on the bullet increases on the way down the bore.
Many shooters prefered a slightly worn barrel to a new barrel that required breaking in. Springfield barrels steadily improved in accuracy for the first 1500 rnds, then continued to improve slightly to and 300 or more, accuracy leveled off till between 4500 and 5000. Barrels were usually replaced at the 5-6000 mark but could hold good groups at 600 yards for up to 18,000 rounds.

Bore life depends greatly on bore to bullet fit , the great variations in Enfield bore sizes meant some lasted far longer than others, but quality of ammunition remains a wild card. Milsurp with undersized bullets might shoot great in one rifle and keyhole every shot in another made on the same day and with the same round count.
The use of Wire Gauze in cleaning wrecked more barrels than any number of rounds could have.
Which reminds me, John Crosman stated that the chamber of the rifle who's bolt head blew out was thinned on the right side, by which I think he meant worn out of the round. I've seen [lenty of cord worn muzzles but happily no cord worn chambers as of yet.
The lack of support caused the cartridge case to blow out sending hot gas directly into the extractor lug slot, A chunk of the extractor lug with extractor still attached severed an artery and the hunter bled out in minutes before anything could be done to save him. Since the Enfield .303 chamber is tapered, and the cartridge case body is tapered more than with most military cartridge designs, loose headspace gives the same effect as an oversized chamber. When that already generous chamber becomes worn theres less and less support for the case walls.
If out of the round as well a blown case can happen.

Loose fitting bolt heads that shift to one side might also result in more pressure on one side of the shoulders than the other if theres any tilt.

So, who was using a notched bolt head? This was never mentioned previously - and if your BSA had the notched bolt head, it was most assuredly a replacement with an earlier part. I do NOT have a copy of List Of Changes anymore, but I believe the change in bolt heads and firing pins was officially promulgated in 1914, maybe 1915. Most of these early bolt heads were to be removed and stored as "emergency spares" or simply destroyed. Any rifles that came in for repair had these removed and changed.

Its the same bolthead that was on it when the previous owner bought it. After the warped fore end that was on it was cut down the rifle proved extremely accurate. I had him leave the nose cap and other fitting with me and promise not to sell the rifle to anyone but me, as I wanted to restore it with a new fore end.
The fore end that had been on it was itself a new condition replacement, but of very poor quality wood and the worst warped fore end I've ever seen.

The wood was very odd, bone white and so flexible you could flex it by hand as if it were one tenth the thickness. The fore end took a nose dive ahead of the sling band and when the nose cap was on there was a visible bow between band and nose cap.
With that fore end on it you could have thrown it with more accuracy than you could have shot with it.

The rifle appeared to have been dolled up just enough to be sold without much if any attention paid to details.
The Rifle is an Enfield Lock product dated 1915 , a MkIII marked body with no * and no sign it ever had one. The replacement bolt body is a BSA manufactured in 1956 from the batch number. BSA contracted to refurb SMLE rifles for foreign contracts such as the Austrian Police rifles in use for some time there before they modernized. Odd to think of Austrians using SMLE rifles, especially during the Cold War years but many have shown up in collections.

I suspect that when they fixed this rifle up to sell off they found the bolt body threads already worn and used the mismatched threads of the Notched bolt head to achieve what would be a tight fit , but only temporarily. After a few years of light use the mismacthed parts both wore unevenly.
When my friend first got the rifle everything seemed fine. Since he lost a thumb in a workplace accident and could no longer work the safety with his sgooting hand he decided it was time to sell the rifle to me.

The Rifle is now as good a shooter as before the bolt head loosened up. The fore end is of the type used on rebuilds of the 1920's. I'd have prefered a proper MkIII fore end with volley sights. I put a new old stock cut off plate on it, and replaced its broken windage adjustable rear sight.
The rifle is in much the same trim as a civilian owned surplus SMLE target rifle of the between war years. The bolt is a later production but would be about the same as a BSA bolt used to upgrade a civilian target rifle in those days.
I haven't mounted the PH5A yet, I don't get much opportunity to do any serious shooting these days so that can wait till I've explored the limits of the rifles accuracy with the open sight.

The old bolt body is almost certainly not the original even though the numbers matched. renumbering of rifles and parts appears to have been a common practice.


PS
If anyone is interested in these BSA replacement bolts heres what I can tell you about them.

These bolts are finished and blued except for the lug faces and a short portion directly behind each lug.
The lugs must be hand stoned to match the slight rake of the mating surfaces of the action body.
But before you start you must make sure the unfinished area behind the lugs allows the bolt to turn freely into battery. Theres several thousands, more really, of extra metal there. This area should be carefully stoned till the bolt can be rotated home without excessive force. A good tight fit there when in battery braces the bolt body so lug contact is not thrown off by the pressure of the extractor spring.

Preliminary fitting can be done with bolt head removed but firing pin and spring left in place. The cocked striker will provide a steady and properly centered push against the lugs and locking recesses.
Smoking the lugs to judge contact works up to a point, but I prefer to use cold blue. By rotating with spring pressure any high spots will show as bright spots.

While stoning is the term, and stones were once used, I have a set of super hard needle files given me by a robotics engineers, these are hard enough to cut a regular file and the cut is as fine as most whet rocks. The files are easier to control than a stone.

I don't know the exact procedure used at the arsenal but the common method for fitting lugs is to insure equal contact with at least 80% of the lug being in full contact before test firing.

At the factories they used two proof charges for the asembled barreled action. One was dry and one oiled. The proof charges also served to iron out any high spots on the lug surfaces, called setting the lugs.

The replacement bolts bear a BNP proof mark so these must have been proofed using an action body meant for the purpose. The condition of the bolt body and its unfinished and unfitted lugs precludes these having been proofed in a regular rifle action, they simply wouldn't fit.

[gew98]

Setting back an Enfield barrel was actually a fairly common gunsmith alteration in both Austraila and suprizingly in France.

French gun laws allowed civilians to own military rifles only if it could not chamber a military cartridge still in use.
.

Ah multitude... technically wrong as it is "military calibers and not "what they can chamber". You can in france and as is often doen have an 8x57 chamber reamed to 8x60 and the 8x57 chambers and goes boom. They do it all day long.
The french laws basically state any military chambering used by the french military , and that they used many is no small statement. But there are subtle ways around it. Sadly the worst part is all the 'extra' stamps from proofing unde rthe regs that get added to such arms . But that's the glory of socialism and a government that has not mechanism to be stopeed from limiting peoples ...well they don't have a 2nd so it's not exactly rights.... but peoples ability to own things they may use against a tyrannical government. Sort of reminds me of how east germany when it existed took ungodly rare mauser rifles and had them deactivated by the score...because the state had fear , of the people.

[gew98]

Gee


All part of the history of the rifle,

.

You are a fountain of useless manual knowledge . In all my years of shooting I have never once seen an enfield action fail...yet have been accustomed to your glorious 03 failing more than once , injuring and or killing users of that substandard product. As the "I chord" committe pointed out in the investigations of how the M16 was dumbed down when produced/supplied to the US Gov't to include the substandard ammo suppplied at the same time...some bigwigs should have hanged for that !. Same kind of lot that should have hanged for the 1903 and the M14 !. But government rarely holds those kind of sods accountable for the deaths of their countrymen by such substandard equipment. It gets fixed..well some like the '03 get sugar coated and they move on over the casualties.
The treatises' you plagarize from manuals/books written about the enfiled rifle and ammunition are all very well known to collectors and shooters like myself that own these books which makes you come across like a pontificatory sod hell bent on bureacracy by the numbers and not hands on real world doings. You add nothing to this discussion by repeating these in engineerishly cloaked speak....when grunts like myself and vulch have and do use/collect these arms regularly and have considerable initmate hands on bang bang knowledge of them outside of the biblical manual mindset.
I have had more mausers and 03's with bulged brass indicating serious tolerance deficiancies than hardly any enfields I have owned and or shot. The only time I have ever seen an enfield that needed a bolt head swap was on a rifle with a mismatch bolt. And when you come across the godlike 03 with bad headspace and or chamber dimensions..time to rebarrel or look close for lug setback in the receiver..as long as it's not the class c steel grenade to the head heat treat , cracked receiver or stock and or bent action screws.
I like the fact that one can argue with a pig... and as well they are generally more usefull and when outlived of purpose they taste great !.

[Gtek]

Ok, now everybody move back from keyboard and take a nice deep breath! Is this not a great country that we have time and thought to argue over such. One guy should just go buy a new one
and the rest of us should move on. Gtek

[Dean D.]

Enough. I believe the O.P. has gotten his question answered and this thread has turned into a urinating contest. Therefore I am locking the thread. If you want to continue your tit for tat arguments take them to PM's as you aren't resolving anything here nor making yourselves look good to the rest of our members.