BTSniper Custom Tools and Dies

[Utah Shooter]

So are you turning (making) your own dies now? They look good.

[BT Sniper]

So are you turning (making) your own dies now? They look good.

Yep, been working on perfecting them for the entire year. Thanks for the compiments. Got about 10 of my custom 40 cal dies out their with one 257 set and now this 338 set. Got a lot more to come, just takes a while to put everything together.

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

Oh, don't forget the 44 mag set that I got from you.

And, especially don't forget the dozens of notching tools that you have floating around!

Notched hollow points, it's the ONLY way to make em!!!

[BT Sniper]

True! I have "Improved" over a 100 sets of CH dies and put together severial of the universal notch dies as well as countless other exellent swage tools but as far as making my own custom "BTSniper" swage dies like those pictured in post #63 I have only just begun. Should have a couple 30 cal sets in the hands of customers really soon, also a new 44, a few of the big 50s, a lot more of the 40s, deffentaly a couple of the .475s and some 22 cal dies sets real soon. Should be a good year coming up.

BT

[MightyThor]

Hey BT on your 338 jackets what's the reason you de-primed them. I thought I read somewhere that it's possible for the pressure to push the lead out and leave the jacket in the barrel. Just asking.

That thread went nowhere fast. The original premise was quickly discounted and died a glorious death. Simply put, it is not possible for gas pressure to push on material in the primer hole any harder than it pushes on the rest of the bullet base and therefore there is no force that would explain or result in a separation of the core and jacket. If you also consider the amount of force that would be needed to unswage the point of the bullet in order to force the core out past the ogive all while moving the bullet down the barrel of the gun in the micro second that it takes for the whole package to clear the barrel, you can see that this is a silly myth touted by folks who scoff at us swagers as a bunch of alchemists trying to turn lead into gold (or at least brass)

Of course, I could be wrong, but I would never actually admit it.

[Reload3006]

+1 with mighty Thor .. also explains Base guard bullets. if one was to open up the hole a little you could make a base guard Core lock

[OneShotNeeded]

I don't want to snatch this thread from it's intended purpose bt seems to me I've read something to the effect of pressure pushing the core out of the jacket. Not saying I agree with that theory. MightyThor<---- what you wrote makes perfect sense to me. I'm new to this whole swaging thing. I've been reloading for 15+ yrs and casting bullets for at least 5. I definately don't know and will never claim to know everything. In my mind, jacket seperation in a barrel would only occur if the core wasn't bonded correctly, or if the jacket wasn't properly produced. Either way I'm learnin a ton on here. Great info and wonderfull people!!!"

[BT Sniper]

Yes it has been mentioned and discused, the concept of core seperation leaving jacket in barrel. In all my time looking I have only found one such case of a potential actual case. A shooter claimed a hawk bullet (actual commercialy availble bullet made from copper tubing with poorly closed base) came apart on him and caused him physical harm. Do a bit of searching on the web if you need to. This shooter's claim was over 5 years ago and if you look at some of the pics of hawk bullets they have a pretty good opening at the base of their bullets. That is the "only" almost confirmed, plausable, maybe actual incident I have came across. Any other he said-she said stories you might see refrence too might be from shooters cutting the tip off the 22 cal 55 grain FMJ bullets. Shooting a bullet made from brass with the primer flash hole exposed causing a problem........ well????? I seriously doubt it! But still leave the primer in when at all possible to save any concerns.

If we need to we can certainly dig up the older thread that covered these issues. It is buried in this forum somewhere then we don't have to hash it out on this thread.

Here is what I have shot from my 44 AMP at 1400+FPS With no problems. Most accurate bullet I have shot actually. Made from cut off top of 30-06. Still I advocate leaving no lead exposed when at all possible.

[MIBULLETS]

I know of someone who had this happen, but it was not the fault of the bullet. The forcing cone of his revolver was so rough that it tore the jacket off the core. So, do not only think about the pressure behind the bullet but also the large amount of friction trying to hold the jacket back as it enters the bore. If your core isn't tight, it would be possible for it to continue moving forward as the jacket is slowed by the rifling. Possible...yes. Likely...probably not.

[MightyThor]

I know of someone who had this happen, but it was not the fault of the bullet. The forcing cone of his revolver was so rough that it tore the jacket off the core. So, do not only think about the pressure behind the bullet but also the large amount of friction trying to hold the jacket back as it enters the bore. If your core isn't tight, it would be possible for it to continue moving forward as the jacket is slowed by the rifling. Possible...yes. Likely...probably not.

Sure, but tearing the jacket off is not the same as pushing the core out. Point is, I would not worry about using BT''s dies on an unprimed brass. I say you can shoot his bullets all day every day and never have a concern. Ok, back to the main point.

[MIBULLETS]

I agree, back to the main point, but the dies have no bearing on the subject. It is the components used to make the bullets. Brass cases, probably no chance even without the primer.

[MIBULLETS]

Ha, been swaging for over 15 years here.

[WilNsc]

Just out of curiosity, I've seen alot of your pictures both here and another site but I don't recall ever seeing a picture of your notch forming die. I was wondering if you've ever posted one, I picture a sorta 45 degree pointed down star shape.

If it's secret squirrel I totally understand, just been trying to visualize how it works.

[ReloaderFred]

That's a pretty accurate description. I have the second generation notching die that Brian made. It works great and produces good looking bullets. You can also make the star shaped nose for blanks, if need be.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[BT Sniper]

Some of my latest work with the 22 cal dies

[DDriller]

Those look really good BT!

[gabe123]

Those look great! Can't wait till you are in full production. Quality does take time.

[PhilOhio]

Just catching up on this thread after a few weeks.

To support what Brian has been saying, no, there is no way in the world you are going to shoot out a core because of pressure exerted through an open primer flash hole. But in my opinion, it's good practice to leave spent primers in place. And anyway, you don't want to size/deprime case jackets before seating cores or forming bullets. We want case diameter larger, not smaller, with most boolit types under discussion here. So it's best to simply anneal and slightly bell cases before adding cores and forming bullets.

In the post-WW-II days, for awhile it was common practice for guys to cut the noses from military surplus boolits or loaded rounds. Most of them used an open base, with lead exposed and the jacket only slightly crimped around it. Some of those cores were shot out, leaving a jacket in the bore, unknown to the shooter. The next shot would either bulge or burst the barrel. We don't do this anymore. Don't even think about it, and please so advise any of your younger friends who don't know about this.

Regarding .22 boolits, remember the limitations. With those made from .22LR case jackets, keep velocities to no more than about 3000 FPS, or they will start flying apart from centrifugal force. Do seat cores in a separate step, and use a punch whose diameter is thicker, matched to the thin .22LR case wall.

For velocities above 3000 FPS, use the thicker commercial jackets and a smaller diameter core seating punch, matched to those jackets. You can't get by with one core seating punch for both types of jackets. With the thick commercial jackets, I run 45 grain .22-250 boolits up to 4200 FPS with no problems. Ricochets don't happen.

You MUST swage all these .22 cores separately, after casting and before seating, for weight uniformity, and you must seat them first, before forming the points in another step. You should also use one type of .22LR case for one batch of boolits; i.e., don't mix 'em up. The problem is that with these velocities and boolit RPMs, you will not get decent accuracy if you take too many shortcuts. If you do it right, phenomenal accuracy is not only possible, it is easy and to be expected. I've been making these for about 40 years. I'm talking about 1/2" groups at 100 yards, and I don't need better than that.

The .22 dies are the toughest to make, for any accomplished die maker. If you can do that, BT, you've got this thing wired.

Interesting to see those nice .44 AMP (Auto Mag Pistol) boolits from Brian. I've been swaging and shooting them in my original first-run Automag pistol since the mid-'70s, and also in my Smith 29...but only using commercial jackets, so far.

Happy New Year to all of you.

[PhilOhio]

Oops! Little "P.S." here. Some of you who start swaging these .22 boolits with BT's dies might get discouraged at first, because of all sorts of problems with wrinkled or folded over noses, and all sorts of forming problems.

It's not the dies.

There is a great variation in the alloy and type of .22 cases. Some manufacturers are trying to get by on the cheap, using recycled brass of unknown alloy. These rounds can be hard to ignite because the brass is too hard for the firing pin strike. Remington has been doing that. So has CCI. Even after you anneal it, the brass will not be quite right.

In my experience, CCI has wonderful ammo, but by far the worst cases for making jackets. I won't touch them. You'll find that out when you try to run them through the die which removes the rim. I thought they were going to wreck my expensive dies.

And this will probably change from time to time, as various manufacturers try different things in their processes. So if one type of case doesn't give good results, try another type. And if those start going bad, try somebody else's...as with the ammo itself.

With cores, stick with pure lead for the most destructive boolit, and it is the easiest to get a well formed boolit. Sure, at those velocities the alloy doesn't make much difference, but the pure, soft lead make swaging easier, if only slightly.

And I'll again make my pitch for investing in one or more adjustable cavity gang molds for your cores. These are simple and (should be) inexpensive to make, as they are nothing like swaging dies. You could make them yourself, in fact. Forget about trying to figure out what bullet you can use for which core. I have three gang molds, four cavities each, diameters of 3/16", 1/4", and 5/16". That gives you any weight core for anything from .22 (or maybe .17) up to a heavy .45-70 boolit.

BT, you need to make some core molds...fun and easy, for a change.

[BT Sniper]

Got some range results!

Here is some good group and data pics. Ofcourse any load data is for refrence only and all standard reloading precautions apply.

Always seemed to be one flier. I will hope that with a better shooting table and breaking in the new gun a bit they should improve.

All groups are from bullets made from 22LR brass and formed in a custom die of my own design.

Gun used was new out of box Savage 12 BVSS 26" barrel with 1-9 twist. Distance was 103 yrds. Temp 45 and calm.

Group sizes where measured best 4 out of 5 shots. Not the norm I know but sure seemed like shooter error on some of those fliers.















Here is a short video of 69 grain BTS 22 cal bullet vs. 4 milk jugs. Fun starts at 0:40 seconds.





I was very pleased with teh results today. I think as I practice a bit more, gun breaks in a bit, fine tune the loads and shoot of a real shooting bench I bet I could cut these group sizes in half.

We shall see,

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT