Starline 45-70 brass group buy.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I'll second that Mold Maker, even if it was a nice lady I talked to this morning.

On the Honcho's 5/13/11 post, He told us as I suspect Starline told him, that the order was back ordered until 6/10/11 and the order would arrive to him shortly thereafter.

That means the order was into Starline's hands before 5/13/11

Then on 7/12/2011 Honcho says, "Just got off the phone with Starline, and they say order will ship the next Monday." That would have been July 18, 2011.

If there were large order issues as indicated this morning, they should have been as I posted, "put in large black letters with bright flashing lights --------".

This should have been done when Honcho inquired about the possibilities and requirements of a large group order, way back early this year.

And as I have stated at least twice, such info, or anything affecting delivery dates should be clearly posted on their web site.

The main thing that makes me feel better is, they do have the order and acknowledge the fact plus they know we are getting concerned.

Yes, I do feel better knowing they know that we know, but they, Starline, in no way gets off with a "get out of jail Free" card on this situation.

Clearly they, "Miss-spoke" when they quoted dates to Honcho, us Ol'Coots still call that lying, and as such are greatly in error that they did not ASAP get back with Honcho to correct the situation.

According to the info I rec'd this AM, large orders take 3 + months to fill. Well, we are already at 3 1/2 months and from the info rec'd are still 2 months out.

Seems like if larger orders, as indicated by the lady at Starline have issues as per longer delivery times, then maybe they should be handled on a contract bases. They should be under contract to the buyer to provide the product and do so by a firm date or pay a penality for non-fullfillment, as per terms of the contract.

Guess we all learn, even us Ol'Coots, but I hope the Honcho's supply of antacid is holding out OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm into my last bag of brass, but will hold off putting in another order to Buffalo Arms or?? for awhile.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[adrians]

mold and crusty ,,,,, well said.
:takinWiz: on starline,

[mold maker]

I think it's time.
Lets express our displeasure to Starline. If I remember correctly there are 19,000+ of us, and everyone of us use brass to reload. Thats got to be a pretty good chunk of Starline's customer base.
Please be courteous and factual, our honcho deserves no less.

info@starlinebrass.com

If their mailbox fills up, wait till they empty it and send again. After all this has been going on for 3+ months. During that time they have politely given us the cold shoulder while using our money interest free.
The worst they could do is cancel the order. At least than we would have our money to buy from somebody else. Right now we have no money, and not even a promise that we'll ever get the brass.
Isn't taking money, and not delivering the goods,,, what Berny Madoff (SP) went to prison for????

[ksJoe]

Who is holding the money? The honcho or starline?

(I do not intend any slight toward the honcho and his efforts here)

[mustanggt]

I posted here last week after seeing the schedule that starline was putting out. After I posted here I went right directly to their website and voiced my displeasure with their business practice as we have all noted here. Hope all our efforts in that regard will be sucessful. Doubt it though.

[ia1727]

Goes without saying the frustrations you folks are going through with Starline---NOT THE HONCHO--of this group buy.

Since Starline has already received the money ( cashed the check ?) and given erroneous information concerning shipment, more than once, it might be time to contact the Better Business Bureau covering the area they are from if the order isn't indeed shipped by Oct.

Another avenue of last resort is to contact their state Ombudsman--this person has the legal right to go into their facility and inspect basically ANYTHING HE WANTS TO. Also has the power to shut them down entirely--including all financials, everything.

Years ago we were involved in a business fire that devastated our business--insurance company played us like fools for 8 months--found out about the state Ombudsman and the matter was resolved almost overnight--we're talking very large dollars here.

This should be the very last resort though.

I have no dog in this fight but I really,really feel for you guys---especially the Honcho, for this guy to go out of his way to set this up and do ALL THE WORK and end up being treated like this is unconscionable, my respect goes out to him.

I'm not a patient person--AT ALL--I'd a called my cousin Bill in Chicago and had his friend Vito stop into Starline and "They would have had a discussion by now" and had this resolved. ( He said jokingly)

Best of luck guys--I hope this comes to fruition for you--keep your chins up, it's brass, not food on the table.

Steve

[mold maker]

You are correct sir, it is just brass. However, the money tied up was in many cases, a stretch, in order to save a few bucks. I doubt anyone actually went hungry, but it isn't Starline's money to have and hold till death do us part. It was for a product they didn't produce in a timely manner. Than they keep extending the date a month or so at a time. This is a scam until they ship. No mater what name you give the practice, it stinks to high heaven.

[thx997303]

Everyone read this post. Important information follows.

First, Starline has NOT taken payment yet. Starline does not take payment until they are shipping the brass. The money is still in a checking account I hold for this sort of thing. The money from the buy is the only money in this account. This needed to be addressed, as Starline is absolutely NOT guilty of anything criminal.

I would appreciate it if all criminal allegations and discussion ceased immediately.

Second, I received a call from Starline today.

They mentioned they were receiving several e-mails about this order, and that they are not going to respond individually to the e-mails, rather they will deal directly with me.

I need to mention that ANY threatening or harassing e-mails to Starline will result in an immediate refund of money to the offending individual, minus costs accrued issuing the refund (postage, money order, envelope). The brass would then be resold in S&S.

Polite, friendly, inquiring e-mails are acceptable.

I'm not saying there have been issues, just taking a firm stance before any issues arise.

The individual I spoke to on the phone offered to immediately ship 5,000 pieces of brass, and the remaining 5,000 would be shipped in October.

I need input from everyone on this buy. I have agreed to accept or decline the offer by this upcoming Monday.

I will be contacting the administrators to either add a poll to this thread, or start another thread with a poll to decide how we should continue.

If we accept the offer, I will need 5k pieces of brass to opt out of the early delivery.

Remember, I am representing all of us on this buy, and indirectly representing the membership of Cast Boolits. We need to conduct ourselves appropriately.

[mold maker]

Thanks thx997303 for clarifying where the money is. That makes me feel lots better about the whole deal.
The offer by Starline to ship the 5K on hand is what they should have done when the first date couldn't be met.
As long as you still have control of the funds, I'll be the first to agree to wait till Oct, but not Nov. Dec. or 2012.
As stated before we respect and thank you for the headaches involved in trying to do us a favor.

[wiljen]

My concern is that the first date has slipped enough times that I want to know what guarantee we have that if we defer until October that it wont wind up being March before we get it. At this point, we have no leverage to enforce those dates and no reason to believe they will honor them based on the behavior pattern thus far. I am willing to wait until October, but at that point, I want brass or money not another delay or excuse.

As for future business, I have no problem with Jeremy as I've been here too with Lee jerking us around but I do have a problem with the vendor. I haven't bought a lee product since and likely will never buy a Starline product again once this is resolved. Fool me once...

[thx997303]

Just to relay what I was told.

The starline rep had said the reason the brass didn't ship at the earlier date, was due to a 20k piece loss when a head forming tool failed.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Again, hang in there Honcho!

And, if it is the truth that they had production problems and Starlines actions at this point REALLY make me question that, then why in the world were they not up front with you, the Honcho, so that you in turn could pass on the info to us.

AS I've said before, I can deal with or adjust to facts, but broken promises fall well short of that level.

I am the first to admit I do not know how fast this brass is produced, and therefore wonder at no one catching a production problem before 20,000 cases were messed up.

Then on the other hand, if producing 20,000 cases is a matter of minutes or a couple hours, then the reasonable thing to do is to immeadiately correct the problem and rerun that amount. Only a few hours behind at the most if that is the case, including the reproduction of the damaged product.

I was told yesterday in my phone conversation with Starline that getting raw material was not a problem, so that should not have kept them from re-running the production.

If however, this is a number of days production for their operation, then someone should have long since been fired and replaced for not catching the problem much before the 20,000 was damaged.

Contacting those like yourself as our Honcho, who have large orders in place, would have been a business like action on their part, not the promises they made you for June and July delivery which were not filled.

Like the other posters, I can hold on to October providing they, in fact provide the promised product by that date.

I for one am very glad to hear that you are holding the bucks, but must say I am a bit surprised considering the dollar amount.

Am I off Starline brass forever? No, but I will from this point on, NOT put someone such as yourself or myself for that matter, in a situation such as we find ourselves currently involved in. Rather, I will pay more and go to a business who has product in hand and there by avoid dealing directly with a less then business like operation such as Starline.

I am very sorry that you have found yourself in the middle of this through no fault of your own, other just doing your best to help out your fellow shooters.

Shame on you, Starline.

I truely hope that a large number of shooters on this forum are following this situation and are thereby fully warned of the pit falls of dealing directly with this company.

AS to 5000 now and 5000 later (October), or 10,000 all in October, I can go which ever way works out best for you. AS things currently stand, I have enough brass to do the needed testing and load up the limited amount of ammo needed for hunting season.

It is good to know that Starline is feeling the pressure, THEY SHOULD!!. AT this point, "if" (??) they have any business like sense/qualities anywhere within their company, rather then bowing their necks and bad mouthing us, the customer, they should be using the current situation as a learning experience in just how important it is to have up front, truthful and current communication with their customers.

THEY HAVE A LONG WAYS TO GO!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Sawdust]

You can hold my 1000 till October.

[mustanggt]

I'm good with Oct. as well. The tooling for the case head screwing up would have been fine with me if they'd have just told you or posted it on their website. I can accept that but not the way they handled it. I will still use their product as it is the best I have ever used and is very consistent as well as reasonably priced. I hope they are being truthful. Thanks for being the honcho.

[shootingbuff]

First as I mentioned I can wait until Oct.
As I stated I was told we were bigger then the small orders, but smaller then the large orders and they ship in the order they receive the request. No mention of a bad production run etc.
AFA e-mails sounds like Starline is feeling the pressure at least a bit. As I also stated I ordered some brass while on the phone since it was supposed to be in stock. Lastly I will never purchase Starline brass again unless it is ready to ship or not at all if the complete order is not delivered by Oct.
I, like everyone else greatly appreciates the Honchos time and effort he has put into this group buy. It is not his fault Starline is has not been forthwith. We saved money with this order if it ever gets shipped and that was the reason for the group buy.
Best of luck to all of us and Honcho don't sweat the things you can not effect.

[redneckdan]

trap addict, you still out there? I will buy you out. Shoot me a PM.


-Dan

[adrians]

shootingbuff,,,,,
you have just saved me from saying that ...... well said ,my thoughts exactly.
let me state this again ,,,, honcho = ....... ..... . .......... ..... . :takinWiz: on starline.
if indeed october is official and they hold up their end then i will //may order again ,BUT if they don't come through i will look elsewhere for my new brass buys.
it would be a great pitty because i hold their brass in high regard

[4719dave]

Well .thats good news i guess .Glad to hear that starline is makeing an effort to get with the program !! Im in the service industry and if i handled matters like this i think i would be OUT OF BUSINESS , realy could use those 200 cases just got that gun with no brass lol .This group of guys here seems to be ONE TIGHT FAMILY GLAD IM HERE .Thanks for all the effort on the group buy . ps get it in WRITING

[Rick459]

4719dave,
Widener's still has .45/70 brass for $24.00 per 50. that would tide you over til the group buy comes in and you can play with your gun. HTH
Rick

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm...78|282|909|992

[LuvMy1911]

I have faith in the Cast Boolits Group Buy, and I have faith in the honcho (thx997303).

We can wait (2 of my friends are sharing my order). Sometimes ya just gotta have a little faith and let things play out in their own good time.

Look at the bright side, I have not ever gotten a bad bag of brass with the starline name on it (not that I have used nearly as much brass as some shooters here, I'm sure). At least they didn't send the order out with brass that would have been sub-standard. Some "R" and "W" brand brass that I've ordered lately has had cracks in the neck or shallow extractor grooves, making them unusable... disappointing to see from american companies and workers.

There may come a time when we look back fondly on this time and say "I remember when you could order brass thru the internet without a special license, court order, act of congress, or act of God". Yeah, the future of our sport concerns me.

I have not called or e-mailed starline, I figured it would be best if our honcho was the one to handle all the details.

Thanks to our honcho for taking the time to do this. thx997303, let me know if you want or need me/us to assist in any possible way.

Jim