questions on a 7mm Mauser carbine.

[Bullshop]

MTGun44
That was not a reverse taper. It is from breach to muzzle.
Today I made a bump die to alter boolits from an RCBS mold to fit the rifle. When done the boolits measure .281" on the bore ride nose section and .293" on the drive bands. I used a flat nose punch to test the die and it looks about spot on for fit at the muzzle.
Now I have to make a better nose punch and will give them a try. I think this might get some decent accuracy out of it. I have still lost interest in keeping it but before I let it go I just want to get it to shoot. Kind of a never say die thing dont ya know.

[Bullshop]

Today FINALLY! Success.
I made a decent nose punch for the bump die. The new bumped boolit is a perfect fit in this oversize barrel.
I loaded up 5 and stepped out to the range. First shot fired at 25 yards off hand made a nice round hole just off center in the 4" bull.
Dropping back to 100 yards the next 4 shots went into a group .75" wide x 2.9" high.
That front sight is awfully fuzzy so I am not surprised by the vertical string.
So it looks like this little bugger will shoot after all. Before bumping boolits it wouldn't keep shots in a 2 foot square. Now I can live with 3" groups. I am pretty sure that better eyes could do better still.
I am glad I didn't quit on it. The victory is sweet.

[Bullshop]

I have a question about these Mauser's. Are the front sights soldered on?[
I dont see any pins or anything holding it.

[doubs43]

I have a question about these Mauser's. Are the front sights soldered on?[
I dont see any pins or anything holding it.

Yes, they are. I've seen some with a set screw that is hidden by the sight blade. Maybe all of them have that screw? I've seen some but not enough to theorize on the screw being standard.

My gunsmith was fond of using Accra-glas to hold sight bases in place. He also used it to hold the front sights on 1911's in place along with staking them. He never had one returned because the front sight fell off.

[MtGun44]

Yes, soft soldered on.

Well, done Dan! Glad it wasn't reverse tapered! That seemed pretty hopeless. Heck, now
that you have it working . . . . . . you going to use it? Look for a swede front sight, they are
flat topped, MUCH better than the pointy ones.

Just shows how 'magical' a knowledgeable expert with boolits can be on a "worthless"
gun.

Bill

[Bullshop]

Thanks all for the sight help and the well done. I am still glowing with delight from that.
The load I have settled on so far is about 25gn Reloader #7 with the 160gn bumped boolit.
It is shooting pretty darn good and power wise should be on par with a factory 30/30 170gn load. That is a good usable power range.
It would be nice to have an M die made for my Mighty Might presses to bump up factory jacketed bullets but I doubt I will ever spring for that.
This has been interesting and fun.

[HangFireW8]

Bull,

I'm coming in a little late. I have a FN M54 shorty in 30-06, it was a safe queen for years because it liked no load. It barely stayed on the paper at 50Y. Finally I slugged it for cast bullets, and lo and behold it was a .310" bore, once I sized boolits for it properly (and glass bedded it) it shoots like a house on fire.

Curiously I later used it to shoot up some old handloads and found that it did like a standard j-bullet, the 165gr Sierra HP Game King. I had tried other boat-tails with no luck... why it likes this bullet, I have NO idea.

[Junior1942]

Let me 3rd (4th?) the motion on the 175 gr RN Hornady. I get moderate expansion with it even at 1600 fps from a 10" 7mm TCU. That's the same expansion as from a 7x57 @ 2200 fps muzzle velocity @ 225 yards.

[Bullshop]

HangFireW8
My guess on why that bullet worked is that it was a soft bullet and it obturated enough to hold the groove.
As for hoping to find one that this carbine will shoot well I feel there is little hope.
.0093" over at the breach is just too much.
Yesterday while I was shooting some of the bumped boolits and pretty much keeping them in about a 4" group well centered on target I thought I would try a factory Winchester round. It was a long parallel sided 175gn RN. It never touched the target backer. Just not much to work with there.
I am beginning to whine about one of the $40.00 Sarco barrels. I am hoping BS Mom will get tired of hearing about it soon.

[MtGun44]

I think that Bret needs to stop by and note that --


FIT IS KING!


Bill

[Bullshop]

Nicks on the Sarco barrel. I just spoke to someone that told me they got one and it had a .289" groove. Are these out of speck barrels or did they just make them that way?
I thought 7mm milsurp rifles had a reputation for good accuracy.

[Multigunner]

Nicks on the Sarco barrel. I just spoke to someone that told me they got one and it had a .289" groove. Are these out of speck barrels or did they just make them that way?
I thought 7mm milsurp rifles had a reputation for good accuracy.

The Long rifles and short rifles have a very good rep for accuracy, but I suspect that it has something to do with bullet construction suited for very worn or over size bores.
Some non U S rifles depended on significant bullet bump up, the bores being manufactured over sized to reduce possibility of excessive pressure should the rifle not receive a proper clearing away of metal fouling for many months or years of heavy combat. Cupro-Nickel was notoriously difficult to remove, and could thickly plate the bore after thousands of rounds fired without the rifle being subjected to the very time consuming and difficult removal process.
U S troops were ordered to never try to remove Cupro-Nickel fouling themselves, they turned a badly metal fouled rifle over to a Sgt or other non-com to have it given the full treatment.

The first shot I fired with the 1895 Mauser long rifle I owned many years ago was an offhand and speculative shot, using an original Remington UMC milspec cartridge.
I hit a beer can with that first shot at a range well over two hundred yards.

U S military rifles from the 1903 onwards have had bores and bullets matched in size as closely as possible.
The Krag generally has a bore at least two thousandths over the bullet dia. The Krag and most European military rifles of the early smokeless powder era used cartridges loaded with high nitroglycen content double base powders. These propellents give a strong initial acceleration which aids in bumping up to fill out a freebore or a badly worn leade.
Most Cupro-Nickel jackets were in fact mild steel jackets , which might also be a factor in preventing skiding at origin of rifling ,and insuring that the bullet is well gripped by the rifling.

Most modern double base powders have much smaller nitroglycerin content (7-8% compared to up to 60% for some turn of the century powders, and Remington seems to stick to single base powders these days.
These powders may not be suitable for some mil spec Mauser bores. Not enough bump up.

[Bullshop]

So with that in mind would you suggest a currently available powder that might work with the bullet diameters currently commercially available?

[Multigunner]

So with that in mind would you suggest a currently available powder that might work with the bullet diameters currently commercially available?

While I've had great success with 4198 and my 8mm Carbine, I haven't tried it with a carbine that had such a loose bullet to bore fit as of yet.
A friend tried 4198 with his No.5 carbine, Enfields having notorious over sized bores of .314 and up, and got great results with .311 180 grain bullets that did not shoot nearly as well with slower powders.

Hornady produces bullets in the .312 diameter that are constructed to bump up well in oversized Enfield and Jap 7.7 bores. I don't know if they make a similar 7mm bullet. You might Email the company and ask about their 7mm line of bullets.

Most 7mm bullets these days are constructed from use in high intensity chamberings like the 7mm Remington Magnum, so they aren't well suited for oversized 7mm Mauser bores.

Kynamco manufactures a target round for the .303 Enfields using surplus MkVII bullets. To get the proper bump up they use a proprietary blended powder charge.

[blastit37]

Ran anouther slug down my SARCO barrel and it came out .2861 again. Believe what you want!

[Bullshop]

I see that Shroader Bullet Works offers a .287" diameter bullet. Even that is still quite some smaller than the breach end of my barrel at about .293"
It may be the best bet if it is a thin jacket and pure lead core.

Another thing I may try is annealing factory bullets. I had some old Barns originals with thick copper jacket. They were too hard to expand in a 45/70 so I set them upright on a hot wood stove hot enough to melt the core. Once they cooled they were much softer and expanded nicely from the 45/70. Might be worth a try.

Blastit37
It was not you I was referring to. It was outside this thread via email with a friend. His barrel was not from Sarco but was also a milsurp replacement barrel. I just dont know if I want to toss the dice and gamble on getting a good one.

[doubs43]

The first shot I fired with the 1895 Mauser long rifle I owned many years ago was an offhand and speculative shot, using an original Remington UMC milspec cartridge. I hit a beer can with that first shot at a range well over two hundred yards.

In early 1968 I bought an 1895 Chilean Mauser from a hardware story in Tacoma, WA. They probably had 50 or 60 on racks to choose from. It was $18.95 as I recall. I had the barrel cut to 24", bolt handle turned down for a scope, D&T'd and Weaver bases installed. I bought a 4X Bushnell Banner scope and cut down the stock which I refinished. My total in the rifle came to $56.25.

Then I bought a Lee Reloader, a box of Hornady 120 grain bullets, cases, primers and a pound of surplus 4895. The powder was $2.00.

Over the next 10 years I made some remarkable shots with that rifle, including a groundhog at roughly 250 yards with only his head showing over a fallen tree. Another shot I remember was a rabbit in NM at 300 yards or more. I was on a hilltop and saw the rabbit sitting in a wash. My first shot was very close so I corrected and the second shot killed it. I sold the rifle to a friend in NM about 1980.

I presently own three 7x57 Mauser rifles: a Remington 700 Classic, a 1922 Brazilian short rifle or carbine (Made by FN) and a 1912 Chilean Mauser that has a new and correct surplus barrel. They all shoot accurately. The 7x57mm cartridge is one of the best.

[Larry Gibson]

I've slugged numerous milsurp 7x57s over the years and have found them to range from .286 - .289. Those barrels are not really "oversize" as that's the way they were intended to be. Our 7mm barrels are "undersized" actually and, again, based on the British 7mm sze. I've also collected numerous milsurp 7x57 cartridges from various countries going back to some 1917 and 1918 stuff. The bullets mike from .2849 to .2886". I also pressure test most of it that was in good condition (pulled bullets and inspected the powder) and would go bang. Those that wouldn't fire I put in WW cases with WLR primers. The psi(M43) measured were right up with modern standards. Those that think those old M93/M95s were "designed" for only 45,000 psi are sadly mistaken.

FYI; the 1917/18 (Spanish made) 172 gr milsurp ammo ran 54,500 psi at 2295 fps out of my 22" barreled M95 (original milsurp barrel, just shortened). The 154 gr PS 50 & 51 ran 59,400 psi at 2442 fps. Most of the other 154 gr milsurps also run 55 - 60,000 psi. Cavim 84 is really good milsurp and ran 45,700 psi at 2590 fps with the 139 gr FMJBT, it is pretty accurate in my M95 also. Both Remington and Winchester factory 175s run 2380 fps at 48 - 50,000 psi. I push the Hornady 175 RN at 2400 fps with 4831 at 51,800 psi with excellent accuracy out of my M95 and it is quite deadly on big game.

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

I push the Hornady 175 gr RN at 2400 or so with IMR 4831 in several different Mausers
and a Ruger with excellent accy. Like Sub 2" with dead stock Chilean 1895 and Brazilian
1908. If the surplus bbls are any good, you should be able to get this kind of accy, but I
am shooting in 29.5" bbls, so the shorter will likely lose some velocity. May be recoverable
by using a faster powder like 4064 or 4895.

Bill

[Multigunner]

I've slugged numerous milsurp 7x57s over the years and have found them to range from .286 - .289. Those barrels are not really "oversize" as that's the way they were intended to be. Our 7mm barrels are "undersized" actually and, again, based on the British 7mm sze. I've also collected numerous milsurp 7x57 cartridges from various countries going back to some 1917 and 1918 stuff. The bullets mike from .2849 to .2886". I also pressure test most of it that was in good condition (pulled bullets and inspected the powder) and would go bang. Those that wouldn't fire I put in WW cases with WLR primers. The psi(M43) measured were right up with modern standards. Those that think those old M93/M95s were "designed" for only 45,000 psi are sadly mistaken.

FYI; the 1917/18 (Spanish made) 172 gr milsurp ammo ran 54,500 psi at 2295 fps out of my 22" barreled M95 (original milsurp barrel, just shortened). The 154 gr PS 50 & 51 ran 59,400 psi at 2442 fps. Most of the other 154 gr milsurps also run 55 - 60,000 psi. Cavim 84 is really good milsurp and ran 45,700 psi at 2590 fps with the 139 gr FMJBT, it is pretty accurate in my M95 also. Both Remington and Winchester factory 175s run 2380 fps at 48 - 50,000 psi. I push the Hornady 175 RN at 2400 fps with 4831 at 51,800 psi with excellent accuracy out of my M95 and it is quite deadly on big game.

Larry Gibson

45,000 Copper Units of Pressure would be around or a bit over 50,000 PSI as measured by modern transducer methods.
How much the PSI figure exceeds the Copper Unit figure depends greatly on the design and capacity of the particular case. The .30 Carbine CUP pressures are the same as the PSI figure for that cartridge. Others have widely varying figures.

The original .30-06 cartridge generated about 48,000 CUP, the bolt of the 1895 should be strong enough for that pressure range. The later versions of the .30-06
Generated around 50,000 CUP, which would be in the neighborhood of 60,000 + PSI for that cartridge.

While the rifles can handle an unknowable number of cartridges loaded far above original design specs, military rifles were expected to remain in use for decades and many would incur bore damage through rust and metal fouling, and just plain old dirt getting into the bore during a battle or long march, so the ammunition chamber pressures were generally kept on the safe side.

The unpredictable results of propellents exposed to high temperatures was another factor. British manufacturers of sporting ammo found that loads worked up in England could damage rifles in India and Africa, due to the great difference in heat of the day. They then downloaded all ammo meant to be sent to tropical climes.

PS
I wonder if one could sucessfully swage down a .308 bullet to .286-.289 or there abouts.
Perhaps if the 7.35 Italian bullet was swaged down it would work better than swaging a .308 bullet.