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Thread: cannelure - groove or suggestion?

  1. #1
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    cannelure - groove or suggestion?

    I put a lot of force on the black knob of the CH cannelure tool,
    not sure whether I got a groove or a "seating depth indicator".
    It's not a bad mark but it's not really a groove.
    Didn't even contact the depth adjustment screw.

    Ideas? Do I need a pipe on that handle for more force?
    Thanks.


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    Not having ever used one of the CH tools I don't know. I do know it doesn't take much of a grove to be efective but yes, it looks like you would be happy with a bit more of a grove for cosmetic reasons if nothing else.

    I'm sure somone will chime in with advise.

    Tell you what I would do..... Swage one of those cast bullets in your die then put a canalure grove on the plane lead swage bulllet and make sure everythig is working correct for you.

    Hard cores will make a difference I'm sure. Got any bullets you may have swaged with soft lead cores vs. harder cores to compare too?

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    thats fine. It doesnt take much. Too deep and the boolit will collapse at the canalure. Its best to do it before you swage.
    NRA LIFER .. "THE CAST BULLET HANDLOADER IS THE ONLY ONE THAT REALLY MAKES ANY OF HIS AMMUNITION. OTHERS MEARLY ASSEMBLE IT". -E.H. HARRISON

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  4. #4
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    Thanks guys

    BT: They're all soft cores, I wanna take it easy on the equipment!

    Buck: I don't have a real core seat die (I'm using 40S&W expander die for that),
    not sure cannelure before swage would work for me.
    I'll do some more and see how they load.
    My first batch of 44 ammo had no cannelure and they worked fine, no setback from recoil, etc.
    so like you say it shouldn't need to be deep.
    Maybe I worry too much...


    The cannelure didn't look deep so I didn't think to measure, just now measured a couple.
    Diameter is .430 below the cannelure and .431 above it!
    I guess it did something after all. They were all .430 before.
    In a revolver I guess .001 extra won't be a problem, don't suppose I need to re-swage them all for that?
    It's only a short distance close to the cannelure that swelled up.

  5. #5
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    Most of the time for me a cannalure before final swage results in the grove just coming right back out because of the pressure I use to make the bullets.

    That extra little bit of .001 size in frount of the grove shouldn't be a problem and may actually be the reason for the increased accuracy. I actually measured a commercial loaded 40S&W and it too was .001 big in front of the mouth of the case. Then again I could be all wet here. If you are concerned simply pushing it into the swage die then back out again solves the bigger size. You don't even need to apply any pressure really.

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  6. #6
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    A.squibload, Thats the way I seat mine also. Find a core or swaged boolit with a slight creese in it near where you want your canalure to be(there is a lube grove there). Now set the canalure tool to touch right there. If you use the lee 40/175gr tl boolit its easy. This will lock the core to the jacket well and tests prove in my gun they are more accurate and will crimp fine even with a slight canalure.
    I have made bunches both ways and tested everything I could think of.
    1-canalure in to a lube grove before I swage
    2 not too deep, it will be easy to go too far now!

    3-Swage
    4-Have great core retention,accuracy,boolits dont over expand and boolits that do not jump crimp under heavy recoil.
    Good luck....Buck
    NRA LIFER .. "THE CAST BULLET HANDLOADER IS THE ONLY ONE THAT REALLY MAKES ANY OF HIS AMMUNITION. OTHERS MEARLY ASSEMBLE IT". -E.H. HARRISON

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    Forgive the poor pics and I didnt have very good boolits to take a pic of but I think they will work.
    LOWER pics.

    First shows a too deep canalure almost all collapsed, only the small amount you see remains. 2nd shows my standard canalure on a loaded round. It looks deeper than it is due to the crimp.

    TOP pics
    , some pics I had stored. Note the core stays put and expanshion stops at the canalure.
    Note the dates are wrong.
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    Last edited by buck1; 05-10-2011 at 06:51 PM.
    NRA LIFER .. "THE CAST BULLET HANDLOADER IS THE ONLY ONE THAT REALLY MAKES ANY OF HIS AMMUNITION. OTHERS MEARLY ASSEMBLE IT". -E.H. HARRISON

    ----------------------
    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
    Thomas Jefferson
    ------
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    -- Ronald Reagan

  8. #8
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    I mounted my CH tool on the side of my bench so that I an pressing down on the bullet instead of pulling it towards me. Much easier to put some force on it. I have no problems getting a deep groove.

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    Mine is also mounted on the end of the bench and has been for about 20 years. I find it much easier to use that way. There's a picture of mine mounted somewhere in one of these threads.

    It also makes a big difference if you're trying to cannelure annealed brass or un-annealed brass. Brass that hasn't been annealed is much harder to cannelure.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred

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    My brass is annealed before swaging, still seems stiff trying to groove it.
    So cannelure can be used for core retention, interesting.
    (Nice groups!)
    Think I will leave it screwed to the piece of wood, my loading bench is 1/8" thick,
    I would have to make a bracket or two.
    Might try to groove before swaging, or swage a little, groove, then final swage.
    Should only take a few to see if it works out.

    Good info, thanks all!

  11. #11
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    Some .40 cal's.

    I knurl my bullets after seating the cores, before running them thru the final Ogive forming die.


    RRR
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  12. #12
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    Good lookin' boolits!
    Now that's what I think of when you say "cannelure groove",
    those are pretty deep.

    Don't think those would fit in my little pistol.

  13. #13
    Is my question, concretely in order that it serves?, does it give him major precision and speed?.

    A greeting

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    It helps build pressure in revolver loads,
    and keeps the other bullets from moving out of their cases during recoil.

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    Be careful about applying a grove as deep as RRR with a brass cased jacket. You can actually sever, seperate, or cut the jacket in two. I had that prob with some of mine I tried to grove to deep but the harder wheel weight core may have had somthig to do with it. The thicker jacket he has there is no problem but the 40S&W case has thinner walls. Other then that.... GROVE ON!

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  16. #16
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    Well, I can only put so much pressure on it with my twigs!

    Found another problem, now that I'm getting a chance to use the CH cannelure tool
    that I bought used in Swappin' & Sellin',
    I noticed the wheel is mostly worn out, it's missing 6 or 8 teeth!
    They're just broken off. Took a magnifier to find out.
    Beware buying used stuff on Swappin' & Sellin', the seller said nothing about it.
    He probably used my money to get a new one, like I should have bought.
    I don't see a way to remove and replace the toothed wheel.
    I have to really pull hard on the knob, run the crank, then rotate the boolit
    and crank again.

    The first 44 rounds I loaded with the BT JHPs didn't have a cannelure groove,
    they shot OK but I would prefer having a groove for 44s, especially if
    I load 'em a little hotter.

    I also got a Lyman 44 die on S&S, mostly OK but had to make "adjustments" before it would cast right.
    BUYER BEWARE on S&S.

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    I quit putting crimping grooves on my jacketed bullets a long time ago. I just apply a heavy crimp and it works very well. Of course my bullets have pure lead cores and a very thorough anneal. This is only done with the 44 Mag and 357 Mag rounds. The 40, 10mm, 9mm, 45acp, and 45-70 (NEF single shot) receive only a slight taper crimp.
    Last edited by Bwana; 05-14-2011 at 07:37 AM. Reason: SP

  18. #18
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    they dont have to have a canalure at all. Past 50 yards the canalure helps in group size and in hunting it helps the boolit stay together. However they are not bad at all with out it. If I dont use a canalure I seat with a tapered crimp.
    Also you may send the tool bach to CH4d for a new wheel? and or spin the handle lots of times to fill the gaps and get depth. .............Buck
    NRA LIFER .. "THE CAST BULLET HANDLOADER IS THE ONLY ONE THAT REALLY MAKES ANY OF HIS AMMUNITION. OTHERS MEARLY ASSEMBLE IT". -E.H. HARRISON

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    Thomas Jefferson
    ------
    "Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem."
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red River Rick View Post
    Some .40 cal's.

    I knurl my bullets after seating the cores, before running them thru the final Ogive forming die.


    RRR
    Rick,
    Nice pics of some good looking bullets.. Going to have to do the same, seat the core, then do the cannelure..
    I do 30 cal..
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck1 View Post
    ...and or spin the handle lots of times to fill the gaps and get depth. .............Buck
    Why did I stop and turn the boolits???
    Must have been sleepy.
    The wheel is larger so the bad teeth will never hit the same spot.
    Thanks, it's not so bad after all...

    So maybe a j-word 44 can use a taper crimp?
    I don't load 'em real hot anyway, if a taper will hold it that would be one less step to do.
    The ones I loaded were around 1000fps (from chart, not from chrono).
    Did a kind of roll crimp, not a taper. They shot fine.

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