Brag about your 375 Whelen or Thoughts?

[Bullshop]

Think about this for a minute. Have you ever gotten a slight bulge on a case neck from just a wee bit too much crimp? Have you ever then tried to chamber that round with that almost imperceptible bulge on the neck and found it just wont go?
Are you with me on this? Small bulge on neck wont go!!! Big bulge at shoulder wont go either.

[JesterGrin_1]

So are you trying to say this is where the Battle of the Bulge came from

There are just so many pro's and con's it is hard to decipher which is which. That is why I posted the question on this board.

[Euan]

Think about this for a minute. Have you ever gotten a slight bulge on a case neck from just a wee bit too much crimp? Have you ever then tried to chamber that round with that almost imperceptible bulge on the neck and found it just wont go?
Are you with me on this? Small bulge on neck wont go!!! Big bulge at shoulder wont go either.

Mr Bullshop, I know where you are coming from, I have had a devil of a job sometimes trying to chamber a round that would not fit. Just because it had a small bulge on the neck, or a dent, or bend etc.
One of my earlier 9x57 mausers had a very small shoulder, but had no problems with it. it never misfired or set the shoulder back that I was aware of. I was using full power loads. I often wonder if that rifle was a rebored 7x57 as the neck seemed a little longer, and with the smaller shoulder diameter. It still had the military stepped profile.
When I do my Ruger No1, I will quite happerly use the standard 06 case. Sizing die be easy, just cut a standard 06 die off below the shoulder and still be able to size the case body. I would neck size with my cut down 375H&H die. So with my scotch ancestery, it would serve the purpose well.
Cheers Euan.

[Bullshop]

I have been expecting Buckshot to weigh in here. I know he has a 375/06 but for some reason he has remained conspicuously quiet.
Buckshot tell us what you know.

[JesterGrin_1]

AFrance was nice enough to send me the link to this article on the .375 Whelen Improved. And I have to say it was astonishing. And some great info even if it is a bit dated now.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...152partial.pdf

Thank You AFrance

[Bullshop]

You will also find lots of data at the Z-hat site. The Z-Hat data is for the Scovill version with the shoulder slightly forward so if loading for the standard I would reduce starting loads by about 10%. In my experience I did not see much improvement in the Z-Hat/Scovill version but I am shooting very heavy boolits at 375gn where the Z-Hat site concentrates on lighter bullets to get impressive sounding velocity. My boolit is using up most of the volume gained by pushing the shoulder forward so I get little difference between the two cartridges.
With the standard version my boolit base is contained entirely within its longer neck but in the Scovill version it is not

[onceabull]

You might want to snatch up quickly any data you find on Z-hat site,as word from another forum is that Fred Z. has skipped out of Wyoming, last seen in Montana,perhaps working for someone else,and leaving some customers short of finished project(s) and/or deposit $...website may disappear,too....Onceabull

[Bullshop]

OH thats a bummer! If it is gone I am pretty sure I have the data for the 375 Hawk/Scovill from their site in my files.

[nanuk]

I have an old 98Mauser that I would like to try something interesting on.

a 375/06 would be a fun project.

I like big boolits

[Euan]

OH thats a bummer! If it is gone I am pretty sure I have the data for the 375 Hawk/Scovill from their site in my files.

The Z-Hat site was still up lastnight.

[FrankG]

I have a 375-06 AI that I put together over 20 years ago on a Mauser FN action and 24" heavy sporter Wilson barrel that Brian Perrezone was selling through SN at the time. My brass is Rem '06 that was full length resized in Redding dies , trimmed to length and fireformed with 375449 270grn cast bullets seated against rifling . The cases filled out nicely with just needing a touchup to square mouths up.
I get 2550 with 270grn Hornady and 4320 powder with -1" moa @100yds.


With the cast I get really super groups but have never ran it across my chrony
Dunno why just shot heck out of it with milsurp cases loaded with cast for grins

[edward hogan]

Owned Rem 700s in .35Whelen and AI Whelen. A very fine ctg for sure; but...

Think if I were going to a standard boltface ctg (.473") as opposed to magnum (.533"), would choose the .284win ctg to wildcat. Gonna get a better shoulder with the .500 case diameter (rebated case head) and a .375 neck. Same basic powder capacity as the .30-06, but more room to seat bullet forward out of the case.

I recently converted a CRF win 70 .300wing to a .375H&H; doesn't have the full H&H length receiver, but does feed 300gr btsp just fine. That said, I just cast a hundred bullets from new-to-me RCBS 250gr flatpoint mold and figure since I use Wheelweight alloy straight, that I will load to pretty decent velocity and have better oal sized round, plus flatpoint knockdown and Wheelweight penetration which is awesome with my .454 Casull.

Also think a .375/338win could be a very versatile prospect for the handloader and bullet casting fan.

[Bullshop]

The problem with going to the 284 case is that it introduces a new problem, that of feeding from the mag.
The larger diameter of the 284 case changes the dynamics of the feed system. That in tern takes the simplicity out of a simple conversion.

[edward hogan]

Guess it depends on what rifle action your working with, but...

I can't think of one Long Action receiver that isn't already sized for at least standard magnum ctgs. Standard magnum ctgs, not ultra or WSM type have body diameter of about .510. Maybe this varies, but the rim is .533 and the body is lesser diameter. No need to widen for rail clearance when using the .284 case, and if you have feeding problems; find a magnum follower.

I have a win 70 in 6.5x55 and the follower is same as for .30-06. The case is shorter, no problem with feeding that I've ever noticed even though the case is tapered and about .480 diameter compared to .470 for the 06.

No need to worry about fillers if you're using the .284 case,
Much more oal open to you in the magazine for bullet seating if using .284,
Data is interchangeable, per Hodgdon #26 for .30-06 and .30/284, (ETA: so use whatever data for .375-06 as starting point)
Heavy boolits are gonna be pretty long; unless using a super-mag receiver you lose seating flexibility by going with the longer case.

As an intermediary option, might try the 6.5x55 AI case as its diameter is .480 versus .500, and capacity will be about the same or just a bit less. The Rem Short Action Ultra Mag case would also be a good option for flexibility.

Why not the .35 Gibbs? If looking for max viability from the 06 case, can make the case for the Gibbs over a .375/06, but the .284 or Swede AI case is better for reasons outlined above especially giving a larger diameter shoulder with the AI advantages of headspace and less brass migration.

Then again, can go the other way and get an NEI or other custom mold that yields a .338 bullet at 285 grains and call it a day...

[Bullshop]

Sorry! I should clarified. I was thinking standard milsurp Mauser or Springfield type action. Altering feed rails on those to get a fatter cartridge to feed can be tricky.

[bearcove]

350 Rem mag case is what I think about. Ken Waters made a 416 Express that is just a 350RM necked up. Plenty of shoulder at 416 375 no problem. Standard mag brass to make. If you form brass with a long neck and seat bullets out. A .375 or .416 short mag body with a .5" neck and bullets seated out should make an efficient cast friendly light magnum.

Don't need more than that, At least I don't think so.

A long neck 416 express sounds good!

[Buckshot]

I just saw this thread LEFT: A 8x57 with a Lyman 323471 next to the 375 Whelen AI with a 300gr Sierra. RIGHT A 30-'06 with a 180gr PSP, An unknown loose .375" 325gr SPBT, Loaded 300gr Sierra, loose and loaded Hornady 270gr RNSP and a loose and loaded Hornady 300gr RNSP.

My first experience with a 375 anything, was our old rangemaster (Ken) who had a Sako chambered 375 H&H improved with a 12" twist. My 375 W-A sports the same twist. I'd fired ken's rifle a couple times just to prove I wasn't a *****, but it wasn't very much fun and way overpowered to simply punch holes in paper.

He eventually began experimenting with cast and aquired the Lyman 375449 FNGC which I understand was intended as the boolit FOR the 375 H&H. Ken got it shooting very well, and at some very respectable velocities. This was at 50 yards and he'd have 3 rounds cutting a 3 lobed hole and 5 shots going 1.25" or less. However at 100 yards it was like a shotgun. He tried different powders and alloys but was always defeated beyond 50 yards.



LEFT: A 30 cal 220gr RNSP. A 352gr NEI cast. Next the same slug loaded. The next cartridge is loaded with a 328gr NEI pointed design. Can you tell I didn't have a real well fitting nose punch? Next in line is a 300gr Hornady RNSP and their 270gr RNSP. I was gifted a handfull of each of the 2 NEI designs by Beagle or Sundog, and I forget at this late date. As I mentioned, my 375 - '06 has the same 12" twist as Ken's 375 H&H Imp but the WORST groups (3 shot) I've gotten at 100 yards were 3".

My rifle was a "1st effort 8x57 Mauser to sporter conversion" that the guy had lying around for some time. I had an 01 FFL for 20 years and early on in the infancy of the BPC Silhuette game I recieved and transfered several rifles for him, at my cost. He had been trying to sell it but eventually gave it to me The bore was shot and truth to tell, the only useable part to me was the action. Everything else was stripped off and the action was sent to The Montana Rifleman to have it barreled and chambered to 375-'06 Whelen Ackley Improved. I have no idea why I do kind of like the offbeat and unusual tho'.

It now resides in a walnut stock I got from Cabelas and it wears a non-descript fixed 4x scope that came off a M788 in 243 I'd bought used in '79, and then sold off in the early 80's. I have absolutely zero need or use for such a thing as this 375-'06. Our neighborhood hasn't experienced a Rhino stampede in quite some time now as a matter of fact. Sorry about the photo quality as at the time all I had was a 1 mpx HP camera with no closeup ability.

Here's a bit of the work I did with it, leaving off the Lyman 375449 stuff. I have only seen one article on the 375-'06 and I don't recall it as being the improved version. I recall it was in "Rifle" magazine. Apparently IMR4320 was or IS supopsed to be THE powder for this cartridge. About the 1st time I'd ever seen 4320 listed as the best for anything Sorry if you dote on that number.

My rifle has a 23" bbl, btw.

NEI 352gr cast, 53.0 H4350 2075 fps
NEI 352gr cast, 52.0 Surp WC852 lot#47288 (slow) + 1cc Grex, 1950 fps
NEI 328gr cast, 60.0 Surp WC852 as above, 2150 fps

Hornady 270gr RNSP, 58.0 grs IMR4320, 2415 fps
Same ........................, 60.0 grs IMR4320, 2460 fps
Same ........................, 63.0 grs Surp WC852 lot#47288 (slow) 2200 fps

Hornady 300gr RNSP, 53.0 grs IMR4320, 2200 fps
Hornady 300gr RNSP, 57.0 grs H4350, 2175 fps
Hornady 300gr RNSP, 59.0 grs H4350, 2240 fps

Sorry if you were expecting a lot more. I DID do a LOT more shooting with the Lyman 375449 cast boolit, and had it up over 2,000 fps. As far as jacketed went they were spendy even then, and as I said I had no legitimate need for this rifle/cartridge and the expense and abuse was a bit more then I needed to subject myself to. My apologies to those fearless souls who shoot such things for the fun of it None of the above were showing any real pressure signs, and I'm VERY familiar with the Winchester LR primer. It's about all I've ever used in that size. I'm not aware of any legitimate lab worked up loads for this round, and had I not wimped out I'd imagine another couple hundred FPS could be obtained. None of these loads filled the case.

I never used magnum primers. They were all Winchester STD LRP. Cases were all reformed R-P 35 Whelen cases and fire forming was done with the cast Lyman boolit. Dies came from CH-4D and are superb. I may be able to see in the photo's that I only partially size the necks? The bodies haven't ever been FL sized since fire forming and some of the 20 round batches used for jacketed have 5-6 firings on them. Those I used for cast were seperate. Hope this helps whoever was needing it.

................Buckshot

[Bass Ackward]

What always interests me is the "comfort" level that people find or in this situation, don't find. There should be NO comfort level minus a rim / belt for any cartridge or bore diameter. But there should be no fear either. We as reloaders should understand or avoid, but that is a personal limitation.

That's why you are always "advised" to separate and mark your brass that is solely intended for low pressure use. That goes for 284 brass, "Improved" cartridges, everything without a belft or rim.

How do we learn to fire form AI, Gibbs, or any other design for which there isn't factory brass? (The joke is that even on new brass, there isn't proper headspace) We learn to reduce the charge and seat the bullet so that it touches the lands. Works for cast cases you want to rehabilitate too.

And there, ladies and gentlemen is 100% of the headspace you will ever need. Case shape and bore diameter are eliminated from the safety equation. Everything else is a personal choice.

[JZdryfly]

I'm loading for my 375 Whelen IMP 40* now, as a matter of fact. I've been using Lyman's
375248 and 375449 with 4198 for 1" groups. That's with 35 grains of I4198. Now I'm trying Bear Tooth's 255 grain boolit and working up in charges to see how well they shoot.
235 grain Speer with 60 grains of 4198 gives me 2700 fps. 300 grain Sierra SPBT with 58 grains of H4831 makes 1.0" groups. Now that I'm just shooting gongs out to 300 yards I'm sticking to cast boolits. I have a 35 Brown-Whelen that I like, and if I was to make up a 375 again I would go with a caliber neck like the Brown-Whelen, and a longer chamber throat.

[44 flattop]

Guys, I just brought home my new M700 in 375 Whelen Imp 40* with a 24" Shilen barrel. She is a beauty!

What would a good fireforming load be? I have some 280 cast, 235's, 260's, 270's and 300gr jacketed stuff.

Not sure exactly how stiff to make the fireforming load.

Thanks!