Project - PID on Lee Pro 4 20 furnace

[CBMC]

I have the Rex C100, reads only in degrees C but simple and accurate, Cost about $13 shipped from china
Just a matter of doing a F to C conversion chart using a spread sheet.

How hard is that to set up? Do you have a schematic? Thanks in advance. Also, is the 400 Celsius enough for our purpose?

[10x]

How hard is that to set up? Do you have a schematic? Thanks in advance. Also, is the 400 Celsius enough for our purpose?

The 400C is 752F - more than enough for most alloys we cast bullets with
I have never used a setting over 360 C (680F) and I get good bullets.
I will have to set the target temp at 405 C (760 F) to see if the PID can be forced to hold a temp outside of its range. It might, it might not.

The REX C100 can either have an internal 3 amp relay or will be wired for a SSR (Solid state relay). It is easy enough to take the case off of this PID and replace the internal relay with two jumper wires so that the control pulse will go to the terminals rather than the internal rely. There is a youtube video on in it.
Most of the C100 PIDs have an information sheet glued to them with the terminal number and what it does.


The instruction sheet has the terminal map and what they should be connected to.
**** The instruction sheet may show a different terminal map than the PID - use the terminal map on the PID rather than the instruction sheet to determine what the terminals should be connected to. Pay attention to which terminals are hooked to 110 V. You don't want to hook 110 to the wrong terminals -

http://www.fmfranklin.com.au/product...c/c100inst.pdf

The only programing that you may have to do is to set the PID so it recognizes which series of thermocouple you use. For the purpose of casting a K type thermocouple is best.

How to change the sensor select to tell the PID which thermocouple you are using
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m5rJE0t-uA

On the PID -
Terminal 6 and 7 - that would be power - any source from 24V Dc to 240 AC - the PID will cope with any voltage in that range.
(check the PID terminal map - it may be terminals 1 and 2 - rely on the PID map on the side of the PID to hook up the terminals correctly)

I started by making a power cable that powered up the PID. Plugged it in and it stabilized after a few seconds of what I assume was testing.
Terminal 8 and 9 - get connected to the thermocouple - Has a positive and negative terminal.
I can't remember if I set the PID for a K thermocouple or not before I connected the thermocouple.
I connected the thermocouple to 8 and 9 and turned on the PID - one part of the display gave me room temperature reading. I held the thermocouple in my hand and noticed the temperature start to drop (I had the connections backwards) so i turned it off and switched the connections to the thermocouple - Turned it on and it showed room temp.
Held it and the display showed the thermocouple was measuring the heat from my hand.

I have purchased a number of REC C100s - some have internal relays, some are SSR - You take your chances.
If it has an internal rely the relay and terminals on the PID may not be heavy enough to last for years of extended use with the amp draw of a lead pot.
I found this Youtube video that shows a 5 minute conversion of internal relay to external SSR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NpcMycHDvk

A video on wiring explaining how it works
(For 240 and 110 - the wiring is the same)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8832hB01abY

[CBMC]

Thanks for the info and links. I also read somewhere that the Rex C100 will display higher if you change the setting.

[dikman]

When you select the K-type thermocouple setting, the table indicates the range as 0 - 1372*C. I seem to recall that when I was experimenting it did go beyond 400*C, but I can't remember by how much. I wouldn't rely on it, though. As 10x said, it's probably pretty rare that we would ever want to go beyond the 400 anyway

[CBMC]

Bought the stuff. Now the wait from China. I am sure I will have questions when it arrives. All the stuff came to about $23 bucks or so. Can't beat that.

[mvintx]

I think the thermostat has crapped out on my Lee PP IV so I'm going to undertake the PID project. I mean why spend $12 on a replacement thermostat when I can spend $130 on something else. Besides, I need another project on the workbench. Thanks to all for the informative posts.

[Avenger442]

Can I use one PID with two TCs one for my pot and one for the oven I bake bullets in? Is there a PID that will learn and save two settings on two different appliances?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Can I use one PID with two TCs one for my pot and one for the oven I bake bullets in? Is there a PID that will learn and save two settings on two different appliances?

Yes, but none of these cheapo units will do that, that I know of anyway.
There are more expensive temperature controllers that will do that.

[Avenger442]

Yes, but none of these cheapo units will do that, that I know of anyway.
There are more expensive temperature controllers that will do that.

That wouldn't happen to be Glencoe, Al would it?

Guess I'm building two or having one relearn. Do they forget what they have learned about the appliance after they are turned off?

[Patricklaw]

Just cooked an Ssr. I had it all hooked up but the SSR seemed to not be cycling. If I didn't have a son standing by me that was an electrical engineer I'd feel like a complete doof. He said we should try it with load. It lit a 60 watt light bulb for about 3 seconds then poof followed by smoke. After a trip to eBay.com a new one should arrive in a week.

[dikman]

Avenger, once they have gone through the learning process it's stored internally, so you won't loose it.
What you can do is write down the values for P, I and D for each device, and then if you change devices just re-enter the PID values for that device. Theoretically, that should put it very close to correct operation for that device.

[10x]

I think the thermostat has crapped out on my Lee PP IV so I'm going to undertake the PID project. I mean why spend $12 on a replacement thermostat when I can spend $130 on something else. Besides, I need another project on the workbench. Thanks to all for the informative posts.

It works out to cost less than $25.00 if you care to purchase directly from the manufacturers

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

That wouldn't happen to be Glencoe, Al would it?

Guess I'm building two or having one relearn. Do they forget what they have learned about the appliance after they are turned off?

"Land of 10,000 Lakes" is Minnesota's nickname...and where I'm from.

as Dikman stated, they do not forget.
ya know, it may not be the worst thing to have two complete different units...there have been several recent posts here about component failure.

[Avenger442]

"Land of 10,000 Lakes" is Minnesota's nickname...and where I'm from.

as Dikman stated, they do not forget.
ya know, it may not be the worst thing to have two complete different units...there have been several recent posts here about component failure.

Understand I should read closer the description on the left. Sometimes I get in a hurry to speak and miss stuff. And there was the hope to have someone close to home to compare notes with. Beagle33 is in Auburn, Al about three hours away. Glencoe, Al is about fifty miles.

Failure brings up another couple of questions in my mind. How long do these things last? Was thinking about going with the Mypin and understand it to be about middle of the road as far as cost. Is it worth it, as far as longevity is concerned, to go the higher priced route? I know I may be asking an opinion but would appreciate some feedback on name brand.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Electronics in general, if properly engineered and properly built, and then operated for about 24 hours...will last forever, if operated in a environment that the components were designed to operate in.

I worked in the 'Burn in' department of a electronic industrial control manufacturer back in the 90s. 'Burn in' was our last test for control PCBs, a simple 24 hour 'power on' test, with a light load. If it passed that test, we'd complete final assembly. Then, if the customer installed it properly, we never seen any failure due to components, in our warrentee department.

BTW, Heat is the biggest killer of electronics, so keep that in mind when you place a PID near a 750º lead alloy melter pot...as well as a metal Heat sink for your SSR.

[popper]

Avenger - My PID is a stand alone - not nearly as neat a job as many. High temp probe (it's the insulation used in the probe, not the probe itself) I just move from pot to oven and dial in the new temp. Cut a cheap extension cord in half, plug into the wall outlet and pot or oven into the SSR half. It overshoots about 10F for a minute then is spot on. Auber unit with other parts from my junk box. Eventually I might make a holder for the probe in the pot. Drilled a hole in the side of the oven. I've used many H.S. materials but the white goo is really the best.

[Avenger442]

Thanks guys. I'm getting into this as my next casting/reloading project. It sounds like it will improve my production quality. This site is great.

Stuff is on the slow boat from China. Should have in a few weeks.

[bottomline]

Just finished mine. I had a great time putting this together.

My thanks to all of that posted the components and pic's - they inspired me!

Of course thanks to Castboolits for hosting an very informative site.
John

[stanley2]

Good job looks professional made!

[dikman]

Very neat looking case.