LeveRevoltuion Powder

[hunter64]

Thanks Larry for the write up. Powder is really scarce in my neck of the woods in Northern Alberta and I keep a list of powders I use encase I am in a store and they have some powder left that I can buy. I was in a store yesterday and they had a sign with all the powders that they carry and 90% of them had a line thru them stating they are out. They had LvRevolution in the 1lb and 4 lb jugs and lots of it and I didn't even pay attention to it. After reading this write up I am going to go back and pick up a few lbs.

[patsher]

I am wondering how this would perform in my old Winchester 25-35. Light boolits, I know. I have molds for 80, 100, and 120 gr. Too light for LvR?

[Larry Gibson]

I am wondering how this would perform in my old Winchester 25-35. Light boolits, I know. I have molds for 80, 100, and 120 gr. Too light for LvR?

My guess is the bullets will be too light. Might work with the 120's or jacketed. LvRevolution powder needs a certian resistance to burn efficiently. That is either from bullet weight with cast or friction from jacketed. In the 30-30 with jacketed LvR didn't burn efficiently with any jacketed lower than 150 gr and with any lighter cast than 170 with the bullets I used.

Larry Gibson

[NYBushBro]

Mr. Gibson,

Thanks for this thread... the data is excellent.

When LvR is available again, I'd be interested in pressure tests concerning how it does with heavier cast slugs in the 35 REM. Here in the Northeast (and online as well), just about every powder has been unavailable so far this year... hopefully that will change (sooner rather than later.)

[NYBushBro]

Shameless bump...

[texassako]

I probably would not have tried LvR with cast in my Remington autoloaders without Larry's write up in this thread. It is working out well on initial tests of .30 Rem in a Remington Model 81 and Lee C309-170-F, and worked great in .32 Rem in a Remington Model 8 using Accurate's 32-155L. I have yet to try it in the .25 Rem(sight issue) or .35 Rem(lack of a mold), but G&A did a pretty good write up in June that included .25-35 117gr loads that is giving me an idea of what it could do in my .25 Rem. They also showed results in .30-30 that back up Larry's heavier bullet advice, the light ones <150gr were not better than other powders.

[NYBushBro]

I have a Rem. Model 8 in 35 REM (and I believe they have a 1:16 twist) that I have never loaded cast bullets for.

Keep us informed regarding your experience with LVR in the Remington auto-loaders please.

[357maximum]

I too am awaiting patiently the 35REM results as i have a pre-micro 336SC and 91 mauser in 35rem to feed and that 8lber of Leverlution powder sitting at my powder dealer is likely about to follow me home.

[Newtire]

Great writeup Larry. I have been getting around 2450 fps with that 160 grain FTX bullet out of my 20" barrelled Ackley Improved .30-30 and 35 grains of H-335. Looks like this newer powder makes that close to doable without the hassle of "Ackleyizing". Now, I'm curious what that stuff would do in an Ackley version! I'm not about to try as I don't have the equipment of know-how to approach that. What a lot of work and thanks for all that effort!

[cwheel]

After finding the loading data on LvR powder, noticed how limited the data is. Sure a marked improvement in some loadings. The 2 rounds I'm interested in trying it in are 38-55 and 444. I notice that in Hornady's loading data, they don't use it or have it listed with their 265gr. FTX boolit, bet there is a reason why. Nothing close to a listing for either of those. Not going to be the first to try, unlike Larry, don't have even close to proper pressure testing gear to do a safe workup. In time, I'm sure more rounds will be tested with this stuff, it will be interesting to watch.
Chris

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks for the comments guys, was my pleasure to do the testing and share the knowledge here.

Larry Gibson

[cwheel]

Next run of 30:30 cast, I'll sure give it a test. That is if we can ever find it here, powder supplies within 100 miles are somewhat limited here. People driving over from CA have kept stock in our local stores quite M/T. Must be hard to find anything over there. The data used in the new Hornady reloading manual ( 9th edition ) doesn't show LvR used in with the 444 FTX reloads, I'm sure there is a reason. Thought the LvR powder would have been a key to getting the increased performance out of 444 just like the 30:30, guess that is not the case. Notice with that one using the FTX bullets, the cases have to be trimmed .150 or so less than normal. Guess once you have done that with your brass, you are committed to using their product. Like to stick with cast where ever possible.


Chris

[35remington]

Regarding 35 Remington possible results:

Using the lighter bullets in the 180-200 grain range there was little LVR could do that other powders could not in terms of velocity. For example, a caseful of LVR gave 2160-2200 fps with the 200 RN's and this can be duplicated or exceeded with pressures suitable for a 336 with several other powders. I do presume pressures are low to lower with LVR, though.

It was when the deeply seated 200 FTX and 220 Speer were used that LVR began to shine. With a charge of 43 grains 2200 fps was possible with the 220 Speer at low apparent pressures in two 20" microgroove Marlin 336's. Repeatedly reloading a single case with the 200 FTX and 220 Speer using this charge (neck sizing only!) revealed very little case stretch per shot and very long life......I reloaded a single case 42 times before giving up, and it was not ready for its second trimming.

Running the case over an RCBS Casemaster revealed no thinning of the brass near the head after this 42 firings. If the 200 FTX and 220 Speer are used LVR will enable decent velocities at low pressures and IMO is the only way to go with the 220 Speer. No other powder comes anywhere near this case life at this velocity using the 220 Speer.....not 2520, H4895, TAC or any of the other powders formerly regarded as suitable for such use.

So with LVR in the 35 give me heavy 200+ grain deeply seated bullets. I'll pass with the 180 Speer and 200 RN's, but will use nothing else with the FTX and 220 Speer. Factory velocities of 2225 fps with the 200 FTX claimed for a 24" barrel can pretty much be equaled with my 20 inch using a 43 grain charge.

[LeftyDon]

Larry, thanks for the report. I found a large jug of LVR before everything dried up and I'll be working up some 30 Remington loads shot to be from a Remington 14 over this winter. Hope to have lots of range time while recovering from knee replacement surgery. I expect to see the same results as your 30-30's, I guess. I have large qty of 150 and 170 grain Sierra RNFP's and some Hornady 150's to work through before trying lead boolits and I've been told by a Remington Owners Forum guru that FTX bullets won't feed in these old pump guns and so don't have any plans to load any of them if I have to hand feed them.

[CPL Lou]

Thanks Larry for putting forth this effort and sharing it with us !
Now if I could get my hands on that RCBS mold for my 30-30

CPL Lou

[tygar]

My guess is the bullets will be too light. Might work with the 120's or jacketed. LvRevolution powder needs a certian resistance to burn efficiently. That is either from bullet weight with cast or friction from jacketed. In the 30-30 with jacketed LvR didn't burn efficiently with any jacketed lower than 150 gr and with any lighter cast than 170 with the bullets I used.

Larry Gibson

Good info as always. Have you got any good loading info for LeverR for the 30-30 worked up yet? I have a Savage 99 (1920s vintage) that shoots good with lighter jacketed bullets & OK with the 160 LeverR factory but havn't got good results yet on 150-173gr cast as yet.

Have several 309-311, 170, 180gr & just ordered NOE 195gr.
Thanks
Tom

[Larry Gibson]

Tygar

Reread posts 49 - 58. Loads were developed fo cast. Data there should fit your needs.

Larry Gibson

[tygar]

[QUOTE=Larry Gibson;1325935]Got a chance to test the confirmation 10 shot strings today out of the M94 AE with 24" barrel.

Results are;

GabbyM's RCBS 30-180-FNs/197.5 gr/BHN 17.5
36 gr Win 760
R-P case
Rem 9 1/2 primer
2.522 OAL

Is that correct? A 197gr (not 180/177) bullet over 36.0gr Win 760?

"While I've tested LeveRevolution quite a bit with 150 gr jacketed, the 160 gr FTX, 311041s and the 30-180-FNs it appears, regardles of the bullet weight and type, the powder doesn't start burning efficiently until the load gets to 100% loading density. That is 34.5 - 40 gr depending on type and weight of bullet. "

From what you wrote about 34.5-40gr LveR from 150-180, can I infer that we could use 40gr with 150s & correspondingly less for 160, 170, 180 down to 34.5?

Thanks again. You must have a doctorette in bulletology.
Tom

[30hrrtt]

Would there be sufficient gains in a 30-30 with Leverevolution in a 13" barrel length?

[GabbyM]

[QUOTE=tygar;2502619]

Got a chance to test the confirmation 10 shot strings today out of the M94 AE with 24" barrel.

Results are;

GabbyM's RCBS 30-180-FNs/197.5 gr/BHN 17.5
36 gr Win 760
R-P case
Rem 9 1/2 primer
2.522 OAL

Is that correct? A 197gr (not 180/177) bullet over 36.0gr Win 760?

"While I've tested LeveRevolution quite a bit with 150 gr jacketed, the 160 gr FTX, 311041s and the 30-180-FNs it appears, regardles of the bullet weight and type, the powder doesn't start burning efficiently until the load gets to 100% loading density. That is 34.5 - 40 gr depending on type and weight of bullet. "

From what you wrote about 34.5-40gr LveR from 150-180, can I infer that we could use 40gr with 150s & correspondingly less for 160, 170, 180 down to 34.5?

Thanks again. You must have a doctorette in bulletology.
Tom

Yes 197 grains is correct. My RCBS mold drops heavier than the 180 listed by RCBS. They calibrate that weight using the lighter linotype alloy. My mold seams to be a tad heavier than some but it's a late model mold from just a few years back. It only makes a solid .309" sized boolit from 2/6 alloy so it's not extremely fat. Just a big boolit.

I like the big bullet but in the lever gun it's delicate to make sure your long bore ride nose fits the bore or you have chambering issues with the lever gun.