209 shotgun primer's in 7.62x54R?

[JKH]

Hey Guys,

I have been searching for days and cannot find what I am looking for and know I have seen the threads before, so I am in need of some guidance.

I want to make some 7.62x54 cases for light to medium cast loads (50 yards and under) for plinking in my Mosin Nagant's, but dont want to put a lot of wear on my expensive boxer primed brass.

So, I need to know what surplus cases will work to do a 209 shotgun primer conversion and any sage advice to go along. I have some Polish light ball but the berdan primers are larger in diameter than the 209's, so that doesnt look like an option, unless perhaps I could make the final opening fit using JB weld?
Drill the case to fit the 209 and then using paste wax as a release agent, seat a 209 with the JB and let it set up (the walls would be suitably degreased and roughened for good adhesion first), would that work for the mild pressures I would encounter with loads of say 10 grains Unique or similar fast powders or less?

Or, as I hope will be the case, is there any brass cased 7.62x54 ball (steel case at least) that uses a smaller berdan primer?

I am thinking of doing this with other calibers but they all take smaller berdan primers to begin with, so I wont have this issue.

Thanks in advance!

Jeff

[frankenfab]

I modified a .223 case to use 209 primers to propel .22 air gun pellets. I shot them in my 15" Encore pistol. It worked great, and the loads were accurate, but the primers quickly coated the inside of my barrel with black goo that I did not enjoy cleaning out.

[NuJudge]

All Albanian and very early Bulgarian 7.62x54R cases use .217" Berdan primers, and are brass. All other 7.62x54R uses .254" Berdan.

About 1 in 100 Albanian cases has too thick a rim, and must be sorted out, but it's otherwise pretty good stuff, but corrosive. The primer pockets on Bulgarian brass fail on about 1 out of 30 cases, letting a lot of gas back into the action, and that ammo is corrosive too.

[leadman]

JIMinPhx has done some case modification to shotgun primers. I think Buckshot has also. Might do a search on their posts.

[JeffinNZ]

I understand the idea of using a 209 as propellant as in the .223 example above but if you are still going to run a powder charge why not just use a large rifle primer? 209's must be more expensive.

[JKH]

so, Albanian brass is what I need, I'll have to post a WTB for 20 or 40.

I ran across some threads by Jim, etc. but no matter how I searched I found no threads directly related, I'll search by their usernames next.

Jeff, I only have 80 boxer cases right now & they are a bit pricey, so I figured converting berdan cases to 209's would be easiest even though 209's are more expensive. Perhaps though if I can get hold of some Abanian cases I can convert them to large rifle instead.

[SciFiJim]

Here is one method of conversion.
http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/topic/25275

There are a couple of other methods as well that I can't find right now.

[hornet fan]

After viewing the above link I thought it might be better the drill out the centre flash hole from the inside of the case. If you make up tooling similar to the Lee trimmers but have a drill bit in place of the centre pin that should work well enough to drill a new centre flash hole. Then follow the process of swaging the primer pocket to fit LR primers.

[Buckshot]

............I converted 100 of the M31 Hungarian 8x56R cases as used in the M95 Steyr straight pull's. Case dimensions in the head and rim are almost an exact match for the Rooski. It appears the primer size in available brass will be the issue. The 209 shotshell primers worked very well and I never had any problems. That is, none you wouldn't expect. As the 209 is a shotgun primer the cup isnt designed for modern RIFLE pressures so once loads reached a certain level primer pierceing became common. No problems until loads got up to and over about 1600 fps with 200+ grain cast.

How did you plan on performing the mod?

................Buckshot

[-06]

Good article with good pics. Think I am going to put a "dimple" maker on the end of the anvil "flattener" to be an easy centering point for hand drilling. Seems worth a try. Just bothers me to trash good usable brass. They kept making references that Swiss is the preferred brass. Does not surprise me. Thanks for the info site

[BudRow]

Light to medium casts loads will not put wear on your cases. Aquire 20 - 40 boxer cases and dedicate them to this use - I'll bet you could load them at least 50+ times by neck sizing with a Lee collet die. I think you are looking for a solution to something that isn't a problem. Boxer 7.62 X 54 are not rare or that expensive. Save the converting to shotgun primers to those cases which only can be found in berdan examples. Unless you have a lathe and a lot of time! Best Wishes, Bud

[plainsman456]

2 years ago we had a couple of weeks of howling sandstorms and looking for something to do I made up 5 or 6 casings for the 209 primer.
They were for an 8MM Mauser with 150 grain jacketed bullets as I had not started casting yet.
Like was said when you reach a certain pressure the primer does fail.These loads shot well even out to 200 yards after sighting in.
When I get a mold for the 8MM,I intend to do some testing with them.I tried some shotgun type powders first but finally went with IMR 30-31.

[JKH]

thanks for all the info guys, I have some Albanian brass on the way and hope to work on it soon.
I will try swag the primer pockets first for use with boxer LR pimers and drill central flash hole, this has worked well on some berdan primed 7.2 Nato brass with loads heavy enough to cycle my Poly M14S without leakage or loose primers. If this does not work well I will cotinue with the 209 conversion.

BudRow, not sure where you have been getting 762x54 brass but what I have seen runs about .50 apiece and invariably they are out of stock, where I live gun shops are few and far between and none carry oddball brass grantng that they carry loading components at all, I have to travel to PA to even buy black powder :^(

Buckshot, not optimum but I plan on using my dill press if I go the 209 route, any advice you can offer would be awesome!

Jeff

[303Guy]

I once modified a berdan case to accept boxer primers by drilling out the centre of the berdan primer and reaming the primer side wall with a drill bit to accept the boxer primer. I've also done the shotshell primer trick only to damage the firing pin tip from flame cutting! This with a 303 Brit and the old large berdan primed cases.

[JIMinPHX]

I converted most of my 7.62 x 54R brass to take large rifle primers by press fitting a brass ring. More on that here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=50789.

I've also done some 209 conversions on both this caliber & some Carcano brass. It works for low pressure loads, but I think that the LRP conversion, or a SRP conversion is a better choice.

NNY headstamp 7.62 x 54R brass was the best quality that I cam across in doing my conversions, but I managed to get acceptable results from most of the Berdan brass cases that I found out in the desert, once I figured out how to remove the primer without messing up the case. I had no luck at all with steel cases.

[JIMinPHX]

Another thread you might want to read - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86157

[JKH]

Hey Guys,

A fellow member sent me a bunch of Albanian brass cases with the smaller bedan primers to play with, nice looking brass!

I tried to hydraulically decap some, no dice, they have an anular crimp and those puppy's are in tight! I really dont want to drill through the primers as I want to be able to flatten out the anvil to fill the existing flash holes prior to drilling a new central flash hole and re-working the pocket for LR boxer primers (I may still try a few with 209's), my only issue is getting the old primers out at this point in a reasonably efficient manner.

I going for a long shot here, would one of you possibly loan or rent your RCBS berdan decapping tool to me so I can decap all these cases? I would be more than happy to pay a fair amount, trade boolits, brass, etc. I would greatly appreciate the help!

Thanks

Jeff

[NuJudge]

You can hook them out with other tools. Here is a thread:
http://theswissriflesdotcommessagebo...Tool-but-cheap

I'm sure Parashooter would be willing to eMail you the pictures that he's apparently taken down recently.

I have not noticed a crimp on my Albanian 7.62x54R, and they did not seem tight to me.

CDD

[lunicy]

I've tig welded steel cases closed (after removing the berdan primer)
Then turned it on a lathe to accept a boxer primer. And drilled a flash hole.

Yea, I get bored sometimes.

But it does work

[Patrick L]

I must ask the question; Why do this?

Other than for the knowlege gained in and of itself, what is the purpose?