Saeco #12

[MikeS]

Hi All.

I don't remember if I asked this already or not, but here goes. I have an old Saeco mould, on the sprue plate it says Saeco #12. I can't find this number on any of the Saeco stuff I've downloaded from various places, but looking at one chart, the closest boolit to it is the Saeco #382. This is a .358 SWC, and on the chart it calls the 382 a Keith design.

I only have 2 moulds for .38, this Saeco #12, and a Lyman 358477, the Saeco is supposed to be 158gr, but as I cast, it came out 161gr, which is close enough. The Lyman is a 150gr, and it came out to something like 152gr or so (I'm going from memory on the Lyman weight).

I like that the Saeco has a much larger lube groove, although I don't know if it's really going to matter, I'm loading these for 38 Spec. and I'm making them fairly light loads as these are for my mother to shoot, so I want something that won't have much recoil in a model 60 S&W. I loaded both boolits over 3gr of 700X which according to Hornady's loading info is on the light side for either.

The Saeco mould is kind of different as it connects to the handles with straight bladed screws from the top of the mould, and the screw that holds the half with the sprue plate also holds the sprue plate itself as well. I know I posted pictures of this mould in another thread, but I couldn't find it. I'm also curious, with the mould attached to the handles (that came with the mould) it seems like the handles are twisted, to hold the mould level the left handle is higher than the right. Is this something that happened to the handles over the years, or was this done for a reason originally?

[bobthenailer]

I cant help with the #12 ID , but i have a # 382 saeco the older design not the newer one which is different ! I also happen to have the new design # 382 it has a shorter crimp to nose length than the orgional #382 as well as some other minor differences.
I bought my first saeco moulds in the mid 70s , and now have about 20 saeco moulds , i have never had the alignement problem with the handles , i have perhaps 8 different saeco handles.
MY #382 bullets also weigh in the 160 gr range when cast of WW.

[cbrick]

I also have the old version of #382 in 2 cav, it casts WW +2% Sn @ 149 Gr.

This bullet is excellent in light plinking loads in my Marlin 357. Here it is next to SAECO # 388 from a 4 cav (on right) 160 Gr. when 388 was still a BB, thanks to Erik Ohlen it is now a PB. #388 casts my WW @ 161 Gr.

As a side note with the load work I have done with these two bullets #382 has been more accurate across the board. Making #388 a plain base did improve it but 382 still outshoots it.

If your #12 looks like this 382 I would suggest that someone along the line has changed the sprue plate. I have a few old SAECO molds that have different sprue plates but they work perfectly.

Rick

[MikeS]

I could barely see the differences between those 2 other than the BB. I just took a picture of one of the Saeco #12s, maybe somebody else can tell me if it's the same as the 382 or not.

I was looking closer at the handles I have, and they're not twisted, it's just that one side is higher than the other because one is on top of the other at the hinge, and they just stay that way. They both bend a bit so that where the mould attaches they're level.

I had another problem today. I just bought a Saeco #69 mould off of eBay, and they didn't have handles, but I figured I would just use the handles from my #12, but when I mounted the #69, the right side half (the one without the sprue cutter) went on really tight (there's no movement like there normally is when a mould is mounted), and the mould wouldn't close! Is it possible that the early Saeco moulds were mated to handles kind of like how the early H&G moulds are? I saw a set of Saeco handles on eBay, but didn't want to spend the $20 some they were, considering that I already had a set of Saeco handles! Now I'm worried that if I do buy another set of handles that I'll still have the same problem with them! Is there any way I can tell if the problem is the moulds or the handle? Another thing I noticed is that the newer Saeco moulds have a plain top, the #12 mould that I have has vent lines cut in the top of the blocks to vent the sprue plate. So, any Saeco mould owners out there, do your blocks have top vent lines?

[cbrick]

Your picture seems to have a straighter ogive and slightly longer than my 382, very similair front band, crimp groove and middle band. No way to be sure about the lube groove or base band with the lube in there. Could be an older version of the same bullet but I sure couldn't say for certain. I also wonder if it could be an older version of 388 as a plain base bullet, straighter nose but very similair.

Let us know how it shoots, you probably have a keeper there.

Yes, 388 is very close, it has a wider base band and even wider now that it's a plain base. It has a bit more curve to the ogive and slightly shorter middle band than does 382. EDIT to add: It also has a slightly smaller meplat than 382.

Interesting about the vent lines on top, I wonder how old this mold is?

Rick

[cbrick]

As for the handles, if they do go on the mold but are too tight for movement you could simply file them down a bit for free movement. Shouldn't effect the use in your other SAECO but would allow the use of them in your new/old mold.

Rick

[bobthenailer]

all of my Saeco handles fit all of my Saeco moulds no matter the vintage .
My older Saeco #382 that has the sprue plate screw attached to the right front corner of the mould is super accurate in every gun ive ever shot it in. from 600 to 1350 fps ! This is one of my first saeco moulds bought over 30+ years ago. The newer 382 is not accurate until you reach 1,100 fps + ?????? in any of my 357s
My new 382 doesent look like any bullet in the photos

[MikeS]

Well, I just remembered that I do have one without lube on it, so I took a picture of it, along with the mould attached to the handles. It's funny, the Saeco handles that I saw on eBay didn't look anything like the ones I have, and the seller also has a pair of Lyman handles up for sale, and they look just like the Saeco one's he's selling, other than the machining where the mould mounts onto the handle. I've never seen Lyman handles that look anything like his, so I'm thinking that maybe they're made by a third party, and that they just FIT Saeco, or Lyman moulds. I just now noticed that they seller of both handles IS the guy I bought the #69 mould from! I guess I better buy those handles so I'll know they'll fit! Here are the pictures I took just now, as well as pictures of both handles from eBay.



The last 3 pictures were pix I had previously uploaded here for a different thread, but they're the same mould. Another thing that's different about this mould, and was the reason for the other pix already being uploaded is that unlike the #69 that I just got, and most of their moulds, this one the screws go in from the top, and on the left block the sprue cutter screw is also the screw that holds the block to the handles! The first time I cast with it, I had a heck of a time, as the screw kept on coming loose, it wasn't until I was done casting that I found the setscrew that hold it tight, and that screw is also reversed, the #69 that screw comes in from the open end of the mould, on my #12 it comes in from the end closer to the handles, which is why I hadn't seen it right away. That was a wild casting session, pour mold, open sprue plate, drop boolits, close sprue plate, tighten screw, pour mold, etc.

[cbrick]

Kinda looks more like 388 looking at the base band, middle groove, lube groove and given the weight you said it casts. The 382 is a 150 gr. and 388 is 160 gr. The nose profile is a bit different, could be an older/newer version in PB.

The pic of your sprue plate showing #12, I have an old SAECO I picked used many years ago that has .452 stamped very clearly on the sprue plate. It is definately NOT a 45 cal bullet. Someone in the distant past changed the sprue plate, it's not a problem, mold casts fine.

Rick

[MikeS]

Does anyone have a complete listing of SAECO moulds that might list the #12 so I can see if that's the correct number for my mould?

[shotstring]

I just dug out a Saeco #012 that I have never used but it doesn't look the same as your bullet. No information on the box other than Saeco and #012 but the distance between the lube groove and top groove appear identical in length and the megplat areas seems shorter. The grooves appear to be identical in width as well. I think it was supposed to be a 158 gr also, but can't remember when or how I got this mold.

It is Redding Saeco though.

[MikeS]

Perhaps mine is an early version, and it got changed over the years, sort of like some older Lyman moulds are different than newer versions of it? I mean if your #12 was a 32 cal boolit, or a 44, or something like that then it would be obvious one of us didn't have a #12, but both being 38 cal, with just minor differences, I would be more inclined to believe that they're both #12's, just mine is an earlier rendition of it. I assume your blocks don't have vent lines across the top, and the screws that attach it go in from the bottom like most moulds, and unlike mine?

Another thing I noticed, while my mould has vent lines across the top of the mould, there aren't any vent lines in the mould face, just relatively rough machining, sort of like Lee moulds! I also norticed with all the pictures of the mould I've posted here, I never put pix of the mould faces, so here they are:

[bobthenailer]

Ive seen a few saeco moulds with vent lines only on one half of the inside of the mould blocks but never with no vent lines on either . IMO if it cast accurate bullets who cares !
IF it need better venting ? bevel the top inside edge of each mould block with a hard stone to put a slight channel where the 2 halves of the mould blocks meet, GO SLOW AND CK PROGRESS WHILE CASTING BULLETS ive done this to every mould i have! i picked up this idea from Veril Smiths LBT book on bullet casting .

[rcslotcar]

I know this is an old thread. I just bought an old #12 Saeco 3 cavity mold. It came in a factory box marked "Saeco-Cramer", #12. It was full of lead splattered every where and would not close properly, The wood on the handles was the nicest I've ever seen on a mold. At $50 I couldn't pass it up, even though I have several other 38/357 molds. After about an hour of very careful cleaning it came out looking almost new. About the mold: Sprue plate NO 12, 3 cavity, no vent lines at all, looks like a Keith design. No info on how it is as I haven't cast with it yet. I also bought a 2nd Saeco Cramer mold in the box marked RG4 30 cal rn for $50. I need to do research on this mold.

[fc60]

Greetings,

The #12 could well be a transition from the Cramer company.

http://castpics.net/subsite/HistMolds/CramerMolds.html

The RG4 was a popular 30 cal 200 grain gas check bullet. The new RG4 from Redding/Saeco is slightly different as the nose is tapered and the original was cylindrical.

Still, at $50.00 each, you did well.

Cheers,

Dave

[rcslotcar]

Thanks for the info. Ruben