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Thread: Plain Base Gas Checks

  1. #21
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    PatMarlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Highwall View Post
    The thickness of the gas check say is .010" which means .020" all around on the base of displaced metal which will distort the bullet, and this is not even counting how much smaller you are sizing the bullet under it's cast size to begin with. It cannot be good for accuracy especially after doing all that work to cast the bullet in the first place. If it was a good idea it would be in the mould manufacturers catalog and all the moulds would be made with out the gas shank to save money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Highwall View Post
    If you put a gas check on a bullet that was not designed for it not only will it be harder to size the bullet causing distortion but the metal that is displaced from not having a gas check shank will also distort the bullet even more.
    I have to disagree with some of the comments.

    I have found no evidence of distortion whatsoever with my PB dies. Sizing a PB check is effortless, and again does not distort. Results from many of my customers have shown far less leading, and increased accuracy with smaller groups in identical side by side boolit testing.


    If you attempt to use to thick of a material for PB checks, boolit alloy that is tempered to hard, and sizing a large diameter reduction then yes- you will have some problems.

    1. Use inexpensive AL or copper .004 to .008 gas check material that is not tempered to hard.

    2. Size and check your bullets within the same day as casting if you are running harder alloys. I have had no problems with WW air cooled alloy, no matter how old.

    3. Don't try to size less that .002 under cast diameter all at once.

    4. Lube your boolits with Ballistol, or boolit sizing (case) lube before sizing.

    5. Make sure the entry lip on the dies have a smooth transition.
    Last edited by PatMarlin; 05-30-2011 at 09:49 PM.

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy taminsong's Avatar
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    30/30Guy: I have been surprised at how easy the PB checks go through my Star sizer.

    Sir, please explain, if possible in details how you do it? I have a hard time sizing bullets in my Star with 35PB Checks. I used the Lyman4500 to do it.

  3. #23
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    I have a PB check maker for both the 357 and 429 dia boolits. I don't shoot super heavy loads out of my hand guns, because I always figured if I needed more than about 1100 fps, I needed a rifle. I only really noticed a difference between with and with out checks when I shoot them out of my rifles. My Micro Groove Marlin 357 mag, prefers the checked boolits a bit better than just a plain based boolit, and my old 44-40 Win didn't seem to have much of a noticeable preference. It did shoot the checked boolits a hair bit better off the sand bags, but I don't think there would be a difference when shooting in the field.

    Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

    Joe
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    Tyrants use the force of the people to chain and subjugate-that is, enyoke the people. They then plough with them as men do with oxen yoked. Thus the spirit of liberty and innovation is reduced by bayonets, and principles are struck dumb by cannon shot: Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma

  4. #24
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    taminsong:

    All of my pistol boolits that I have used PB checks on are cast with a mixture of half lead and half wheel weights - air cooled. The boolits are not much larger than the sizing diameter. I am from the "old school" - I size all of my boolits base first with my Star.
    I have tried pop can material for my checks but find it a real pain to cut the strips and punch the disks. My prefered PB check material is 0.008" lith plate followed by 0.0085" aluminum and then 0.010" copper. All seat without much requiring much pressure.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master reloader28's Avatar
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    Except for hunting boolits, I use straight WW lead to simplify when I collect and remelt my used boolits.

    My brothers 9mm gave us fits. I tried different sizes, powders, loads, heat treat, everything we could do and we still had lead in the barrel.

    With Pat Marlins PB checkmaker I can use free pop cans and now we can actually run full power loads in 9mm and have zero lead in the barrel with good accuracy.
    This thing is a 9mmer's dream.

    My friend and me were shooting full power 357 mag a couple days ago with air cooled WW. He had boolits plain based and I used the same boolits but with a check. We both had some lead without the checks, but the barrels were spotless and accurate with the checks.

    I lube and size in 1 stoke, then put on a check and run it thru the sizer again and have no problems. I aint seen any problems with distorting the boolit.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by .30/30 Guy View Post
    taminsong:

    All of my pistol boolits that I have used PB checks on are cast with a mixture of half lead and half wheel weights - air cooled. The boolits are not much larger than the sizing diameter. I am from the "old school" - I size all of my boolits base first with my Star.
    I have tried pop can material for my checks but find it a real pain to cut the strips and punch the disks. My prefered PB check material is 0.008" lith plate followed by 0.0085" aluminum and then 0.010" copper. All seat without much requiring much pressure.
    That's a new one for me. Could you share your source for that? Thanks!

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy
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    If I remember correctly I got the 0.008 lith plate material from JKH on this site. Great material and service.

  8. #28
    Boolit Bub carlsonwayne's Avatar
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    Would anyone be interested in sending maybe 10 or 15, 35 cal. PB checks, so I can see them and try them?? I really want to get the dies, but since I can't seem the grasp the concept, it would help if I could see and "install" some. I shoot a lot of 9mm, so that is what I would buy first. I would appreciate it a lot if someone would be so kind.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master 161's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlsonwayne View Post
    Would anyone be interested in sending maybe 10 or 15, 35 cal. PB checks, so I can see them and try them?? I really want to get the dies, but since I can't seem the grasp the concept, it would help if I could see and "install" some. I shoot a lot of 9mm, so that is what I would buy first. I would appreciate it a lot if someone would be so kind.
    PM sent
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    "Some times it's just better to smile an walk away."
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by .30/30 Guy View Post
    If I remember correctly I got the 0.008 lith plate material from JKH on this site. Great material and service.
    Thanks! I'll look him up.

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub carlsonwayne's Avatar
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    Thanks 161, I'll let you know when they get here. It took me a bit to find this thread again.

  12. #32
    Boolit Bub carlsonwayne's Avatar
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    They came today. I'll PM you in case you don't see this. Thank you so much!!!!!!

  13. #33
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    bumping this thread to the top.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy MaxJon's Avatar
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    I really love the popcan check idea! Might have to buy a .25 cal PB mold, and try them in my 25 303!
    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN HIT THE CENTRE OF THE TARGET IS WITH A CENTREFIRE!!!

  15. #35
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    Me too. Just loaded these and hope to do an initial test this week. Been PC'ing some supersonics for the 300 blackout and have not had any leading but noticed on some recovered bullets the bases were gas cut pretty badly. All that culling for base defects to no avail..... anyway, gonna see how these do. I just punched the discs with a 7/16ths punch we have at work, made a forming die out of some cold rolled, and voila! Well, it wasn't that simple.... I was in a hurry and didn't research as I ought to have. The first discs were 1/2" and were way too tall. I suspect when I make the hard die set for the press, it will be just over a .400 diameter disc. If this works out well, I think I'll be making sets for most of what I shoot. Been noticing some gas cutting on my 10mm and 45-270 SAA bullets too.

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ID:	262036first stab with .500 discs.

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ID:	262037that's more like it.

    So far, no problems seating base first in the Lee sizer except for 3 or 4 that were not quite square. Need to pay attention...

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ID:	262038 this is what I'm trying to avoid.
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Young kid to old vet: "How do I know when it's time to take up arms?"

    Old vet: "Well, you grab your rifle, load 'er up and go outside........ if you're the only one, it ain't time yet!"

  16. #36
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    Had a little problem catching my bullets yesterday, so put some cinderblock behind the rag box . These NOE 153 HTC's at about 1800 fps went through the gel block, my rag box and broke the cinder block, but I stopped them, by gosh. Not exactly apples to apples as far as condition but you can see the checks did what they were supposed to.
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ID:	262187this is the 311410 MP hollowpoint at about 1950. Not MOA yet but accuracy was measurably bettern. Didn't find any checks on shanks but I haven't had any indication yet that they are coming off in flight.

    Infact, I did find one off of a MP 235 that came off in the gel block and came to rest within 1/4" of the end of the block.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	262191 pay no attention to those voids in the base of my bullet....
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Young kid to old vet: "How do I know when it's time to take up arms?"

    Old vet: "Well, you grab your rifle, load 'er up and go outside........ if you're the only one, it ain't time yet!"

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy dimaprok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bld451 View Post

    Infact, I did find one off of a MP 235 that came off in the gel block and came to rest within 1/4" of the end of the block.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	262191 pay no attention to those voids in the base of my bullet....
    Wow, I learned something. NOE HTC 153gr SP is very accurate with IMR 4198 both in my Ruger 300 blk and 7.62x40WT. I had 4 out of 5 shots at MOA. In limited testing I didn't notice the difference in accuracy with PB gas check and without. I am still firm believer in "regular" gas checks (homemade). These PB gas checks just don't grab over PC that well and tend to come off. Over bare lead they stay put well but the slick powder coat not so much. I prepared a batch from my new mold Lachmiller 130gr PB that looks identical to Lyman lyman 311410 with BLL lube and see if I can drive them at mild velocities 1800 - 2000 fps without leading barrel. Powder coated same weight NOE easily runs 2330fps with good accuracy this is with 7.62x40WT.

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy dimaprok's Avatar
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    One more thing, I noticed you're you got a line that looks like crimp? Are you putting on heavy taper crimp or Lee factory crimp? I believe you should only put a bare crimp on lead bullets to remove flare.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimaprok View Post
    One more thing, I noticed you're you got a line that looks like crimp? Are you putting on heavy taper crimp or Lee factory crimp? I believe you should only put a bare crimp on lead bullets to remove flare.
    I have been crimping with the Lee F.C die. I tend to crimp all the 300 blk ammo I load. I should probably test it without a crimp to see if the bullet jumps when fed from the magazine. I presume it will since I only have about .001" neck tension. I have tried a lighter crimp but have not tried none.

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ID:	262261these are what I have to compare right now. Bottom (left if you can read the targets...) set is with PB gas checks. Right is bare. Not quite at moa yet but improving. That little 311410 hollowpoint surprised me a little. I thought it would just come all apart. The nose did but the base (73 grains ) went through the 16" block. Permanent cavity maybe 6" long . Great coyote medicine. That was at 1900 fps out of my 8.5" blackout.
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    Last edited by bld451; 05-18-2020 at 01:24 AM.
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Young kid to old vet: "How do I know when it's time to take up arms?"

    Old vet: "Well, you grab your rifle, load 'er up and go outside........ if you're the only one, it ain't time yet!"

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy dimaprok's Avatar
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    My understanding and same thing comes from manufacturer of Barry's copper plated bullets is that you should crimp just enough but not to perforate and compromise the coating. I believe same applies to powder coat, I crimped only to remove the flare, maybe light crimp at most. P.S. You might like these printed targets better http://www.mytargets.com/ I like to print them on thicker paper too, you get cleaner holes; 4 - 5 per sheet is optimal and one per page for sight in.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check