Barrel makers, advantages?

[Wayne Smith]

I'm about to pull the trigger on buying a barrel for my Martini action - .257 caliber. That means I have the money and I'm itching to spend it! I'm wondering if there is any known current advantages/disadvantages with the major barrel makers at this point in history? I'm thinking mostly about delivery time and price.

Cartridge will be 25 Kraig AI 40 degree.

[deltaenterprizes]

The Barrels Midway sells as Adams & Bennett are made by E.R. Shaw and are good for the money. Most barrels are button rifled except Kreiger. Kreiger barrels are broach cut rifling.

[82nd airborne]

Call Montana Rifleman. By far the best barrels I have used as a whole, and I cant think of a brand that I havent used yet. You may say, yeah, but thats because you use them! I would reply, of course, thats the reason I use them!

[Red River Rick]

Norm Johnson, High Plains Re-Boring and Re-Rifling, Turtle Lake, ND. (701) 448-9188. Norm does some fantastic work, and reasonably priced.

RRR

[waksupi]

Wayne, I inspected lots of barrels from custom makers with a bore scope. Go with Montana Rifleman. Consistently the best interior finish and accuracy.

http://www.montanarifleman.com/

[B R Shooter]

You get what you pay for. Plus, you also need to know what level of accuracy you're looking for.

For hunting, most any brand will do,provided the caliber and twist rate are what you want. Varminters look for a little more in accuracy, and go to the major brands if they are serious.

There is no argument that the benchrest crowd have and build the most accurate rifles, and they don't use any of the above mentioned barrels, except Krieger. The trend right now leans toward cut rifle barrels and there are quite a few of these makers to choose from. Button rifled makers are many, some pulled, some pushed. Nobody in benchrest uses a hammer forged barrel.

Cut rifled barrels can be had in just about any twist rate you want. Button barrels are what buttons they have, but most of the major brands have you want.

It comes down to what level of accuracy you want. I know many will disagree with what I've said, but look up equipment lists and what the level of accuracy is being shot today, and make up your own mind.

[S.R.Custom]

The shop here has been open to the public for about a year now, and in that time we've built 5 custom rifles. The barrels used have been Douglas, Lilja, and Shilen. (No one's wanted to spend Kreiger style money yet.) All have been sporter profiles, and all have shot 1/3 MOA or better using Sierra Matchkings with basic reloading technique (standard dies, no turned necks, no uniformed flash holes, etc.)

The most interesting barrel of the bunch was the Shilen I used on a rifle I built for a wildlife biologist in Alaska. It was the least expensive to buy, but required a couple hours on the lathe to true up and get the hole in the center. The rifle was a Remmy Model 7 in .308, and had one of those squishy, cheap plastic stocks that wasn't even worth bedding. The guy's bullet of choice to build the rifle around was that awful Barnes TSX (180 gr). Despite all that, when we were done that rifle would shoot that Barnes bullet to 0.34" at 100 yards off a bipod. Scope was a Leupold 3-9.

[Bullshop]

I have used two Pacnor barrels for custom jobs and they too were good barrels.

[Wayne Smith]

E-mail to Montana Rifleman and I'll see what they say. Depends on how recently their website has been updated. They have one on sale that is just what I want if it isn't already set up for a particular gun.

Although I did see that Pacnor has octagonal 'rifling'. Did not see a price for those, though.

[Wayne Smith]

Just ordered a barrel from Shane at Montana Rifleman. Thanks, Waksupi.

[rbertalotto]

I only use three brands of barrels.....


Kreiger
Kreiger
and
Kreiger

(I've used a few Pac Nors when Kreiger wasn't making .204 bores)

I've had accuracy issues with all other brands, not many, but enough to be annoying.......I've NEVER had a bad Kreiger. There is simply NOTHING like a properly Cut Rifled barrel.......Period!

[B R Shooter]

I only use three brands of barrels.....


Kreiger
Kreiger
and
Kreiger

(I've used a few Pac Nors when Kreiger wasn't making .204 bores)

I've had accuracy issues with all other brands, not many, but enough to be annoying.......I've NEVER had a bad Kreiger. There is simply NOTHING like a properly Cut Rifled barrel.......Period!

Well, you really shouldn't make a statement like that IMO. While Kreiger does indeed make fine barrels, they have made some duds too. A friend/shooter and I bought two Kreigers at the same time, both 6.5. I chambered mine and he had his done by a well known smith in OR. We both had a terrible time with them with fouling. Calls to Kreiger did nothing but make excuses, I sent mine back to them and got more excuses.

My point here is EVERY barrel maker makes a bummer here and there, and to make a statement that you will never get a bad Kreiger just isn't true.

I have shot just about every PREMIUM top shelf barrel there is made here in the USA in benchrest competition for over 15 years. For the most part, you get a fine product. Some seem to shoot for ever, some give up much sooner. Some shoot average, some shoot way better than others, and some just don't shoot well at all.

[akajun]

I only use three brands of barrels.....


Kreiger
Kreiger
and
Kreiger

(I've used a few Pac Nors when Kreiger wasn't making .204 bores)

I've had accuracy issues with all other brands, not many, but enough to be annoying.......I've NEVER had a bad Kreiger. There is simply NOTHING like a properly Cut Rifled barrel.......Period!

Exactly, when you buy a premium barrel, you are not paying for accuracy, you are paying for the Guarantee of Accuracy, or basically that when the barrell is properly installed, it will be accurate. Cheaper barrells, may shoot well, some even excellent, but if you get a bad one and even if the barrell company gives you a new barrell, you are stuck with paying a gunsmith to intsall it.

[akajun]

Well, you really shouldn't make a statement like that IMO. While Kreiger does indeed make fine barrels, they have made some duds too. A friend/shooter and I bought two Kreigers at the same time, both 6.5. I chambered mine and he had his done by a well known smith in OR. We both had a terrible time with them with fouling. Calls to Kreiger did nothing but make excuses, I sent mine back to them and got more excuses.

My point here is EVERY barrel maker makes a bummer here and there, and to make a statement that you will never get a bad Kreiger just isn't true.

I have shot just about every PREMIUM top shelf barrel there is made here in the USA in benchrest competition for over 15 years. For the most part, you get a fine product. Some seem to shoot for ever, some give up much sooner. Some shoot average, some shoot way better than others, and some just don't shoot well at all.

Now that you say that, I noticed that it takes about 300 rds or so but my current krieger barrell does hold a lot of fouling, but after the 300, it cleans much easier now. I never saw the difference on paper, but I dont shoot BR, Just Highpower.

[rbertalotto]

and to make a statement that you will never get a bad Kreiger just isn't true.

I never said YOU wouldn't get a bad Kreiger, all I said is I'VE never seen a bad Kreiger with my own eyes. And I've never had a bad Kreiger. And I've had over 20 of them personally. In my club there are dozens of Kreigers. All are are amazing barrels. Not a discouraging word is heard.

I simply can not say that about all the other major brands........I've personally witnessed very poor barrels from the other major brands.

All I'm recounting is my own observations. Not opinion, but pure observations....Take it for what it is worth...........

[felix]

One of the major problems any manufacturer has is the definition of "new" by the customer. I want an accurate barrel, not a new barrel. For example: Used cases must be once fired, right? No, I want cases where the primer pockets are within spec first and foremost. That's all. ... felix

[B R Shooter]

Roy, C'mon and read your first post. Anyone reading that will think there is not any other brand of barrel to buy other than a Kreiger. If YOU have never seen a bad Kreiger, then you are lucky.

However, I suppose I should clarify something. The level of accuracy that is required and needed in the benchrest community is not what most people try to achieve. Right now, the trend is between Krieger and Bartlien. But there are a couple other makers that are coming on strong with some new stuff. There is an issue barrel makers are dealing with now and that is the steel available. Some are even importing trying to get some good steel.

And you can't hang your hat on the only barrel to buy is a cut barrel. There have always been fantastic buttoned barrels.

In my 15 plus years shooting benchrest, I've gone through probably 50 barrels, maybe more. And I do work for quite a few others as well, so I see my fair share. I know there are good barrels to be had from many different sources.

[John Taylor]

While I'm not into bench rest I was into long range many years back. Most all the barrel makers make good barrels and will replace any that are not good. I'm a dealer for Green Mountain but I install more McGowen barrels than any other. In talking to some of the makers I found that a lot are looking at a hardness of 28C Rockwell and I believe Douglas is holding close to 32C. I can see a difference when machining in the way the chip breaks. The stress relieve after button rifling is very important. I had a Shaw barrel warp many years back while being machined octagon/round with and integral rib. First thing they said when I called was that I got it to hot while machining. I told them it was under flood cooling in a mill and they sent me another barrel. Used a Douglas for the same project and it came out great.
Most of my customer are looking for a good barrel at a good price. GM barrels will shoot as good as any but they don't always have what I need so I use a lot of McGowen barrels. I use to use Montana rifleman barrels but a few of their people bought McGowen several years back and the salesman that I always talked to went to McGowen. I still get a lot of Douglas barrels to turn for one customer.
When I started doing rebores there were only nine shops that were listed. I have a list of a few on my web page. There are several custom barrel makers that do cut rifling, Johnson was already mentioned, there is also Dan at Cutrifle.com and Delta gunsmithing that do great work.

[rbertalotto]

There have always been fantastic buttoned barrels.

But as you know (ask Tony Boyer) you need to buy a couple dozen of them and keep the ones that shoot good!

I've heard great things about Bartlien, McGowan and the company from England who's name escapes me right this moment, but until I get a bad Kreiger, I'll stick with Kreiger. I like the idea that Kreiger has their own in house, very scientific stress reduction. And they will perform it as many as three times during the fabrication of the barrel.

And I still contend, if done properly, you can't beat a cut rifled barrel. Looking at a Kreiger through a bore scope is a thing of beauty. Can't say that for most buttoned rifled barrels I've inspected.

But buy what works for you......Don't fix it if it ain't broken!

[B R Shooter]

Tony weeds through cut barrels just like button barrels. He takes nothing for granted regardless of what name is on it. Again, what we are talking about here is a level of accuracy far beyond what most don't even know is achievable.

Aside from a Douglas that don't lap their barrels, the inside of a button barrel should have the same finish as a cut barrel. I challenge anyone that can look at the inside of a barrel and determine whether it has cutting edge potential or not. If one could do that, that person could make a very good living doing nothing but looking through a bore scope.

I've not seen one McGowan barrel used in benchrest competition. Maybe they should get a few into the proper hands and see how they hold up.