H110 vs 296?

[Rocky Raab]

We're Air Force, Mallard. We rise above it all...

[cheese1566]

So riddle me this?

If it has always been the same (for quite a while anyways...) why does the load data in my books and elsewhere warn about reduced loads of WW296 but nothing I found ever mentioned this for H110?

Just curious. I use WW296 in my 357mag loads and soon will run out. I'll switch to H110 if available and cheaper.

[BAGTIC]

I suspect there are several reasons companies are getting out of the powder business. All get down to risk and profit. OHSA, EPA, US tort law, and the threat that tigher guns laws would severely impact the future of the business.

[454PB]

I caused a lot of hate and discontent by saying that years ago, same thing with WW760 and Hodgdon 414.
Jeff

And WW231 and HP-38

[leadman]

I just used up my old cans of these powders but when Hodgdon starting selling it I looked at both the H110 and W296 I had. Can remember which powder was which but one was the dark gray and the other was the greenish/gray color like H4895. Did they color the powders differently way back?

[Rocky Raab]

Powders can change a bit over time, especially semi-irrelevant things like color. But I assure you that the W296 of a given time was exactly the same as that time's H110.

Before they merged, it's entirely understandable that Winchester and Hodgdon officials may have felt differently about cautions and warnings issued with a given powder. That goes for load data, too. Now that they are essentially the same company, the two will be worded the same.

The official list of identical powders is:

W231 = HP38
W296 = H110
W540 = HS-6
W571 = HS-7
W760 = H414

Note that W748 is NOT (repeat NOT) H335, as some people believe. Never was.

[mdi]

Hey Rocky, mebbe been answered before but, are H110 and W296 the same powder?


sorry, I just had too....

[chuck4570]

What about Winchester 748 and Hodgdon BL-C(2) ?

[EDG]

Hodgdon told me in an email that WW760 = H 414.
I am not sure why anyone would ever contest that.

I caused a lot of hate and discontent by saying that years ago, same thing with WW760 and Hodgdon 414.
Jeff

[Mallard57]

Hodgdon told me in an email that WW760 = H 414.
I am not sure why anyone would ever contest that

This was some years back before Hodgdon bought everything, but if you say something contrary to someones preconceived notion about their favorite powder they aint happy. Many times the results they would use to justify the difference were no more than differences in powder lots. I know the HP38 and WW231 are the same powder but it seemed different to me(but I knew better).

[Airman Basic]

Felix, I know Winchester has a plant in Oxford, but didn't know about one in Biloxi?

[felix]

That's correct, it's Oxford, not Biloxi. I just typed the wrong town while thinking of the other. Winchester (Olin stockholders) has a center fire factory, and a rimfire factory right next to each other, both fairly new. The factories hire old timers for the most part, those who know what it takes to make a living through profitable work. Not many students are hired from Ol'Miss, which is a couple of miles south. I would have expected otherwise because of locality. Locality was chosen to escape union influence commonplace in the St. Louis area. ... felix

[Nickle]

What about Winchester 748 and Hodgdon BL-C(2) ?

Different. BL-C 2 is considered the same as WC 846, not 748.

[pdawg_shooter]

Okay folks, for the 947th time (seems like, anyway)...

H110 and W296 are the exact same powder. Period. Always have been, no matter what some folks believe. Any difference was (and is) due to lot variation. This isn't my opinion, my guess, or my surmise. My source for the information is Chris Hodgdon.

+1 ON THIS! The only difference between H110 and W296 is the packaging. They are and always have been from the same batch, just bottled different.

[PS Paul]

I suspect there are several reasons companies are getting out of the powder business. All get down to risk and profit. OHSA, EPA, US tort law, and the threat that tigher guns laws would severely impact the future of the business.

Yep. Just more pressure, regulations, fees and backbreaking taxes/restrictions designed to put more and more businesses out of business. Doing anything to HELP businesses by making things easier just ain't in the DNA of those in Fed govt., peiod.

[Lloyd Smale]

dont know the answer but ive seen the same with 110/296 and with imr4227/h4227 with the differnt colars. I wont argue that there both not the same powders but looking at my old load data for both of these two combinations and ive find some pretty big differnces in accuracy in differnt guns that couldnt have been just a lot number because it held up for years. My opinion of them is this. With both comparisons the burn rate is so close that there about interchangeable and today they are the same powder as the companys combined. But back in the day there was something differnt between both of these combinations that did effect accuracy and even pressures and velocitys. 44 man discussed this too. If i recall he said he allways got a tad better accuracy in his siloutte gun using 296 then he did with 110.

I just used up my old cans of these powders but when Hodgdon starting selling it I looked at both the H110 and W296 I had. Can remember which powder was which but one was the dark gray and the other was the greenish/gray color like H4895. Did they color the powders differently way back?

[skeet028]

Way back when I bought 2 25 lb cans of HP-38 and H 110. Got 'em from one of the last full line powder wholesalers in the east. CHEAP too. He was in Jersey and couldn't sell large cans like that. When I got them back to my shop..opened the boxes..the can from the HP-38 said Win 231..the other can was marked Win 296 and the box on it said..of course..H-110. What Rocky said is correct. The loading data from Win and Hodgdon was done in different pressure guns and different bbls on different days. OF course they would not be as close as you would think. I have quite a few lbs of Win 540 and HS-6..same powders..Same with HS-7 and Win 571...They even look the same. Now..I have about 10 lbs of HS-5 and it was supposed to be the same as Win 473..and it may be..but they look nothing alike. One day I will find some good loading data for it. I think Trap 100 and Win 452 were the same also.

[C.F.Plinker]

Got new news, Larry, from cartridge production folks at the new WW plant at Biloxi. St. Marks has plenty of powder for shipment and the real news is that they are NOT labelling the lots with the old time WW numbers. Hodgdon is now the sole distributor of the produce to others, no matter who they are except to the WW plants. So, sooner or later the packaging will indicate even same lot numbers until one of the retail number's die. Every lot now is being shipped from St. Marks as industrial powder, if you will. Canister "grade" is now up to the purchaser from St. Marks. In other words, expect number changes for these individual lots, unless Hodgdon is going into the mixing business (of smaller lots) to make up an "old" Canister number. ... felix

Your last two sentences lead me to believe that Hodgdon received "canister grade" powder from St. Marks in the past and also that they (Hodgdon) did not have the facilities to blend different lots into a more uniform product. If they are not able to blend lots does that mean that we can expect greater differences between cans with different lot numbers from here on out?

[felix]

Yes! Does NOT mean that two different lots won't do the same in a specific application, but it DOES mean to treat each lot as a brand new number. ... felix