Brass Jakcet vs Copper Jacket

[touchdown88]

I've been watching the forum for some time since my grandpa introduced me to swaging about a year ago. He used to swage 'back in the day' when the dies were cheap.

I've been interested in making 458cal bullets for my 45-70's out of 45 acp brass, but am a little worried abou the hardness of brass compaired to copper. I'm sure it's been reviewed before.

Thanks for the help.

Tyler

[elk hunter]

Tyler,

First of all welcome aboard.

Not knowing what your exact question is I'll address your concern by stating that I have made and shot over ten thousand .224 diameter and many hundreds of other larger caliber jacketed bullets with brass cases as the jacket. From my experience I will say that; brass is not as malleable as copper so it requires a bit more pressure to form, the jackets seem to deform much easier i.e. they tend to be very explosive/destructive so are better suited to practice or for non-edible game. I haven't noticed any increase in bore wear/erosion in using them. While some are quite accurate they are not match grade bullets.

With the growing cost of commercial bullets I'm sure we will see more interest in the home made variety.

Search this form and you will find a wealth of information from very knowledgeable people that share a common desire to do it themselves.

[Bwana]

I've shot over a thousand of my Hybrid 45acp/308 case bullets through my NEF 45-70 with no problems. Very accurate and mine expand and hold together perfectly.

[touchdown88]

Sorry for not conveying the main topic of the post clearly. The reason I ask the question is that I have a 45-70 double rifle and want to shoot a bunch of practice loads with it. The problem is that I don't want to shoot a practice load that will be detrimental on the bore. I've got a great load with 405gr laser cast boolits, but want something that will open up bit easier on game.

This is a picture of a sheep that I shot with my 45-70, but the laser cast boolits were a little too hard and just punched through the sheep. I need a cheap jacketed hp for good expansion that will not break the bank.



For this type of hunting I think a bullet that has a jacket made of brass might just be the solution.

Tyler

[MIBULLETS]

Tyler,

I think the brass cases will be just fine on your bore. I have shot many brass jacketed bullets down my 358 winchester and have never noticed any difference in wear.

Interesting gun. That think must kick like a mule. How far was the shot?

[frank martinez]

In reading and shooting several different doubles I believe you only have to be concerned with the brass "monometal" bullets ie Barnes or others. If the core of the bullet is maleable, you should be fine.
I have shot many swagged bullets in my doubles and not found any concerns. Your main issues will be bullet weight and bore size. Be sure to slug the bore and check the regulation for the rifle. You should find it on the water table or from the gun maker.
Beauty of a sheep.
Frank

[a.squibload]

Tyler:
Brass is copper with zinc, and zinc seems to be "slick" on steel, should be OK.

You did mount those horns on a helmet, right?

[elk hunter]

Tyler;

I've only shot a few game animals, primarily elk, with homemade jacketed bullets that used copper tubing and brass cases for jackets. Did the bullets kill elk, yes, did they perform as well as commercial bullets, generally speaking, no. They tend to be too fragile up close and didn't expand reliably at longer ranges even when I bonded the core and used a double jacket. In truth I haven't spent the time needed to make a reliable homemade bullet for big game, will I do so in the future, probably not, I'll use them for practice and stick to Noslers, Hornady, Barnes or Norma for the real thing as I know they will work every time. For no more rounds that I fire at game, last year it was two rounds, the cost of commercial bullets is minimal compared to the cost of the hunting trip.

If you find the cost of commercial jacketed bullets too high you may want to consider using a soft cast, paper patch bullet, millions of American bison fell to them in the 1870's and 1880's. Generally speaking the cost of a good mould is considerably less than the cost of bullet dies.

[touchdown88]

Thanks for all of the replys gentlemen. The responses on this forum have been great and very helpful.

As to the sheep. It was a 'cull' hunt. This ram and his twin brother had a lot of wool and the owner of the sheep, who hates the wool, told me to come and "take care of them." I got to within 40yds of the ram and got a clean shot off. My dad shot the other one with a 223 Winchester Low Wall. It was a fun hunt and shooting some sheep with my dad was a great experience.

The double rifle was regulated with 325gr Hornady Leverevolution factory loads, but the rifle shoots reduced or squib loads a lot better than the load it was regulated for. For light game, like the sheep and the abundance of mule deer that recently moved into our area of Ut, the swaged bullets should be more than enough. If I go on a hunt for something bigger, I'll definitely go with premium bullets or factory rounds.

Tyler