Brass .410 shotshells

[sirgknight]

Do any of you reload these? If so, I need some advice. I'm using new Magtech brass. I'm thinking of using a .45 cal vegetable fiber wad for my over-powder wad, but do I need to use the .030 or .060 thickness wad? I'm thinking the .060 would make a better seal, but that's just speculation. On top of this wad I'll be using a 1/4" felt wad and then the shot, topped off with an over-shot paper wad covered with a clear sealant (Duco cement). I read where the vegetable fiber wad is widely used in the blackpowder arena but is also an excellent wad for smokeless powder. Any comments, recommendations, suggestions or criticism is appreciated here. This is a new endeavor for me. Thanks.

[totallycustom]

I would really like to start reloading these also if anyone else has anything else more basic to add about the details of loading these magtech brass shells.

[Reg]

Never used Magtech brass but have shot bushels of 410 loads using 444 Marlin cases and almost any 410 plastic wad I could find. Stayed with large pistol primers, make up a simple dipper for your desired powder load, seat the wad with a simple dowel rod and seal the shot load with a top wad glued in place with Duco model cement. Years ago we used waterglass for the top seal but have you priced it lately ??!! Do use just a bit more cement than you might think necessary or recoil will pop the top wad loose. Have used this loading for many years now in both a Stevens 311 side by side and lately in a CZ Ringneck. Did make up a few cases using 303 British cases but they looked a bit "bulgy " around the head area and didn't quite work as well in the 311 as the extractors are not fitted up as tight as in the CZ and not often but on occasion will over ride the extractor. Have found these loads deadly on doves and bunnies but have never tried on pheasants as I just don't think the 410 is a reliable killer on these tough feathered birds. Since I use these only in doubles, wad height is not critical. One may want to pay more attention to this in a pump or semi and also you would want to roll the top of the case a bit for feeding but it would make for shorter case life.
Have no idea what case life might be as I have never worn one out.
Simple loading at it's very best and a whole lot of fun.

[shotman]

If you are going to shoot same day would work. But if you leave loaded the oil will decompose the powder
there is guy on feebay that sells punches to cut your own . wads
the over shot wad if you know someone that gets the plastic cottage chesse ot butter yogurt things like that the lids are thick plastic and make good over shot wads dont need glue
I got 2 of the 45 size and honed one out a little. but he will make any size so that would be best way
Oh also 444 brass works better and last longer and primers are cheaper and dont have to resize and the nickel ones are pretty in a belt

[badbob454]

Do any of you reload these? If so, I need some advice. I'm using new Magtech brass. I'm thinking of using a .45 cal vegetable fiber wad for my over-powder wad, but do I need to use the .030 or .060 thickness wad? I'm thinking the .060 would make a better seal, but that's just speculation. On top of this wad I'll be using a 1/4" felt wad and then the shot, topped off with an over-shot paper wad covered with a clear sealant (Duco cement). I read where the vegetable fiber wad is widely used in the blackpowder arena but is also an excellent wad for smokeless powder. Any comments, recommendations, suggestions or criticism is appreciated here. This is a new endeavor for me. Thanks.

i would start with powder then a 60 and a 30 wad then the felt then the shot to stabilize the wads to seal the gas and then a 30 wad on the end unless you think the over shot paper will hold it together good i think this will work good ... good shootin ... post how it works ok?

[shotman]

here is a pic of the 444 with the plastic wad
this will stand recoil in a judge and there is no crimp
I use a 45 reg bullet seat die to set the wad as it centers and keeps it flat

[sirgknight]

I have a few of the 444 casings but there's a headspace problem in my Judge. Too much time involved. I also considered annealing some 303 british, but again the headspace problem. Seemed the best to go ahead and start with the .410 brass using a large pistol primer. I already have metallic reloading equipment to deprime and prime the brass, so the handloading will be pretty simple. The felt wads are not lubed; I use them dry. www.trackofthewolf.com and www.ballisticproducts.com are two good sites for wads, etc. I suspect that I'll need to use .450 diameter card to go over the powder. I want a good tight seal. I have some 2400 and 296 powder on hand and will probably try both. I'll be using .410 2 1/2 inch load data with these casings. The Judge is one of the fastest selling firearms in America and I don't understand why someone hasn't come out with some load data for brass .410 casings.

[Lonely Raven]

I have access to some Nickel plated 444 Marlin Brass, and I'm considering picking up a Judge, just as a fun gun.

I can't find any info on turning the 444 Brass into .410 brass. Any help with that?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Reg: Are there any modifications that need to be done to the .444 cases?

Do they duplicate 2 1/2" shells? This sounds great.

A box of Winchester AA .410's is $10-12 at Walmart. Having lifetime cases would be cool.

This would be the ultimate usage for a .410 Lee Loader. If you could find one.

Randy

[edler7]

I got some magtech .410 brass for my Judge but haven't loaded any yet. Does anybody know what shell holder is needed for a single stage press. I tried the recommended RCBS 28 but it didn't fit. Read somewhere else a RCBS 26. I'll see if I can find one.

The site I got my info from suggested a .430 diameter 1/8 inch nitro card for over powder and a .450 for overshot on magtech cases. I ordered brass and wads from Buffalo Arms.

Links for loading are here and here. Links also contain how to fireform cases from rifle brass.

There isn't a whole lot out there on the web for .410 loading...

[Lonely Raven]

You might try whatever shell holder works for the .444 Marlin, since that seems to be another brass that people are using...it stands to reason that it would hold the Magtech brass.

[jimkim]

A Lee number 5 shellholder works with a regular plastic hull. It cross references to an RCBS number 7.

[Harter66]

I made some cases from both 303B and 30-40 cases the shell holder for them seems to fit the 410 case well also. I cut note book covers out at 460-480 for over powder and over shot cards and used meat tray plugs of the sam dia for under shot wadding . It worked but was not consistant . The plastic wads were far better w/great consistancey. W/ the plastic wads I used the thin front notebook covers for over shot cards and waxed them in place w/a moderate roll crimp. FWIW I used a 45 Colts case for a shot measure.

[GBertolet]

On the CH website, they list the brass .410 and the 38-40/ 44-40 as having the same size shellholder, the CH #19. The Lee #5 priming shell holder works for me using the magtech brass in their priming tool. It's a little loose, but it works fine. Other than the Lee decapper and a wooden dowel to seat the wads, I have not needed any other special tools as of yet.

[lylejb]

Are there any modifications that need to be done to the .444 cases?

No, other than a slight expansion / fireforming when first fired. The inside of a .410 chamber is about 45 caliber. Most of mine had to be fired 2 or 3 times to fully expand.

Do they duplicate 2 1/2" shells? This sounds great

I haven't chrono'd them, but I think they're very close.

The 2 down sides are: .444 brass is about $.50 each if you have to buy it, and I had to go to a non- book loads to get correct performance.

The first load I tried was with win 296. It was a "by the book" load for plastic cases. It was HORRIBLE. Half the shells were squibs / "bloopers" at maybe half velocity, with tons of unburnt powder.

I started a thread on this subject, and Woody1 replied with his load of 8 gr of herco. I'm very happy with this load.

The load I'm using is: Rem .444 brass, CCI pistol primer, 8.0gr of herco, and a federal plastic wad.

I use a universal decap die, then prime as usual. I set up my powder measure to drop the 8 grs herco, and charge cases. I seat the plastic wads firmly with a home made ramrod tool that looks much like a muzzleloader's ball starter tool. I trimed a 44 mag case slightly to use as a 1/2 oz shot measure, then glue a 410 overshot card in place with elmer's glue - all. I let the glue dry overnight.

It works well. I think you could go bit higher if you wanted to, but I haven't tried it. I also tried some blue dot loads and they worked fine. Sure beats the $10+ a box for factory stuff.

This would be the ultimate usage for a .410 Lee Loader

Maybe, but you don't really need one. I'm also not sure if the decap pin would fit in the flash hole of a 444 brass.

As usual, use your own judgment and caution when working up loads. these loads work for me in my gun, but as these are not published loads, I cannot guarantee performance or safety for anyone else.

[edler7]

Got to a place that had shell holders today. The RCBS #35 fits the Magtech brass perfectly. It is listed for 38-40 and 44-40 Winchester. Thanks to GBertolet for the heads up on that one. The shell holder for the .444 Marlin did not fit- too narrow across the mouth of the holder.

Now...off to the bench and then out to the range.

[flashhole]

Can't add anything but want t follow the thread.

[little willie]

Almost 10 years ago there was a long conversation about this project, I save it on my computer as a text file.

If anyone is interested in it, contact me and I will happily share it.

If anyone knows how/where to upload the file for viewing, let me know and I'll gladly do so (it's very long with a lot of posts to the thread).

[Lonely Raven]

If you have a Gmail account, you can use Google Docs. It's free, and you can share it with specific people, or everyone.

https://docs.google.com

I'd like to have that discussion, if you want to E-mail it to me: LonelyRaven@hotmail.com

[little willie]

Lonely Raven,

It's on the way to you, I hope you find it useful,