Homemade Jackets ? new method maybe ...

[Bullseye93]

Hi everybody ! 2º post here ...

Last night I couldn´t sleep so I satrted to think how to make my bullet jackets...
I know how are made in factories and i saw how KTN makes those wonderful jacktes but i think that it´s a lot of job and meaby a bit complicated... and i need a lot of dies and i don´t have money so afther a lot of hours trying to find a good method i saw the program of DISCOVERY , how things are made ( maybe ) and saw how they make a trumpet ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH-nueuujd0

see at the 1:50 mins how the "cone" is made ... why not use a copper strip Square or circle to then give it the right diameter, wall thikness and leght by trimming it all at the same time for make the cup ?

WHAT DO YOU THINK ? i´m going to give it a try to see how it perfoms but it would be great to know if there is a problem in this method ... maybe there is because i know no factories that uses this method.

PD: excuse my english !

[runfiverun]

cartridge cases are made from stamping and drawing discs to the correct shape.
there are a couple of annealing steps in there also.

[bohica2xo]

Spinning jackets from sheet. I guess if all you had was time & brass or copper sheet it could be done.

A lathe mandrel the size of the desired ID of the jacket, and a flat center would do it. Spin a disc or square of metal down on the mandrel, forming a cup.

One shop I worked in had an entire area devoted to spun parts - mostly aluminum. Specialized spinning lathes, and highly skilled workers. It was a dangerous place, with cobbled together tooling. Even in that video there are some things to make you cringe. A hand held turning tool to clean off the solder for instance.

I think a spun sheet jacket will be cost prohibitive, even if the metal and electricity was free.

B.

[Bullseye93]

cartridge cases are made from stamping and drawing discs to the correct shape.
there are a couple of annealing steps in there also.

I was talking about bullet jackets not cartrige cases !

[Bullseye93]

Spinning jackets from sheet. I guess if all you had was time & brass or copper sheet it could be done.

A lathe mandrel the size of the desired ID of the jacket, and a flat center would do it. Spin a disc or square of metal down on the mandrel, forming a cup.

One shop I worked in had an entire area devoted to spun parts - mostly aluminum. Specialized spinning lathes, and highly skilled workers. It was a dangerous place, with cobbled together tooling. Even in that video there are some things to make you cringe. A hand held turning tool to clean off the solder for instance.

I think a spun sheet jacket will be cost prohibitive, even if the metal and electricity was free.

B.

Maybe I expressed myself in a bad way ...
If you use a copper or brass sheet and then you turn it into a cup you don´t need to solder anything because you use the hole sheet ... and second if you use the same method that uses the factories you need to make a jacket afther at least 3 or 4 stages , cut , draw into a cup (.50 dia ) and then draw them into a smaller dia perdially until you get the correct size .( for example 5 or 6 steps for a .224 dia bullet jacket is needed ) ... a was thinking of fixed tools that only slides to make the cup and a previus set cutter to make the correct jacket leght ... I don´t know there but here the copper strips are much more cheap than a copper tubing or a
9mm luger cartrige case !

[runfiverun]

you missed my point.
if a circle of copper can be made into a cylinder for a cartridge case it can be stamped into a bullet case.
the first step is to make the basic shape of a bullet jacket.
you just need the right alloy of copper and correct stamping tools.
a final anneal will be needed in the process.

[Bullseye93]

you missed my point.
if a circle of copper can be made into a cylinder for a cartridge case it can be stamped into a bullet case.
the first step is to make the basic shape of a bullet jacket.
you just need the right alloy of copper and correct stamping tools.
a final anneal will be needed in the process.

Now i got that thanks ! Question ... do you know how the Speer deep curl or the Federal Fusion are made ? I think it a kind of plating but in a really strong way maybe ?

[bohica2xo]

Bullseye:

You specifically mentioned the operation being performed @ 1:50 in that video.

That is a spinning lathe, forming the material to the bell tool.

What you now seem to be describing is a more typical cupping & drawing operation that is performed worldwide to make bullets. If a large company needs several steps to cup, draw and form a jacket from strip stock, you will need the same steps & tooling.

If Hornady or Speer could sock out a quality jacket in one hit from strip stock they would be doing so. There are no short cuts. A few stamping operations, an anneal, perhaps more operations...

Because tooling and machinery like 50 tom punch presses are beyond the budget & skill set for most reloaders, they use other sources for jackets. Copper tubing, fired cases, paper patches, etc.

A plated bullet will work, but it takes more than just casting a core & plating too. Cores need to be precise, so good ones are swaged. Then they are plated, and finally they get brought to unifiorm size & shape in an die - swaged again.

B.

[Bullseye93]

Bullseye:

You specifically mentioned the operation being performed @ 1:50 in that video.

That is a spinning lathe, forming the material to the bell tool.

What you now seem to be describing is a more typical cupping & drawing operation that is performed worldwide to make bullets. If a large company needs several steps to cup, draw and form a jacket from strip stock, you will need the same steps & tooling.

If Hornady or Speer could sock out a quality jacket in one hit from strip stock they would be doing so. There are no short cuts. A few stamping operations, an anneal, perhaps more operations...

Because tooling and machinery like 50 tom punch presses are beyond the budget & skill set for most reloaders, they use other sources for jackets. Copper tubing, fired cases, paper patches, etc.

A plated bullet will work, but it takes more than just casting a core & plating too. Cores need to be precise, so good ones are swaged. Then they are plated, and finally they get brought to unifiorm size & shape in an die - swaged again.

B.

Thanks bohica !

[KTN]

Because tooling and machinery like 50 tom punch presses are beyond the budget & skill set for most reloaders, they use other sources for jackets. Copper tubing, fired cases, paper patches, etc.

B.

Thats why I use 7 ton log splitter, some old shock absorber rods, few feet steel bar and chrome moly steel for dies . I'm cheap .



And some drawn jacket blanks. That .50 cal A-max is what I'm trying to copy in the end.





Kaj

[scrapcan]

Kaj

Another excellent display of aptitude on your part. Are you sure you would not like to be my neighbor? There is a place for sale just down the road....


Can you describe the action of the door latch in the back ground? The cup dies I understand, I want to see how that latch works!

Good work and carry on.

[Bill*]

Kaj


Can you describe the action of the door latch in the back ground? The cup dies I understand, I want to see how that latch works!

Good work and carry on.

It looks like you lift the rebar part to clear that stud it rests on, then swing it away from the door?

[Bullseye93]

Thats why I use 7 ton log splitter, some old shock absorber rods, few feet steel bar and chrome moly steel for dies . I'm cheap .



And some drawn jacket blanks. That .50 cal A-max is what I'm trying to copy in the end.





Kaj

WOW that is amazing ! KTN you are the best man !
Could you make a little description on your dies and what kind of copper/brass sheet do you have ? how many steps( and time ) does it take to make a jacket for a 9mm bullet ? Thank you for your previous post !

[coyote]

Kaj I guess i'm cheap to I've used a lot of 4140 chromoly for dies and punches it hardens up good enough and tough no broken punches yet.

[scrapcan]

Bill*

I was thinking the same thing, but I want to see the end of the latch that must have a tongue on it to catch in the jamb. But hta tis a hijack and I probably shoudl refrain from more of that. I just like to see how KTN's mind works, as he gets things done and in fine fashion.

[KTN]

Bullseye93,

I will post whole story on jacket drawing, once I get all my tools and dies to working order and to bit more practice on how it's done.
What I can tell you is, that it's not that hard drawing jackets from copper or brass, it just takes several steps to get to finished jacket.

In this picture is 0.803" (20.4mm) blank cut from 0.031" (0.8mm) copper sheet and four steps it took to draw it to 0.372" (9.5mm). Still needs to reduce diameter to about 0.350" (8.9mm) and trim to lenght. My intention is to make combination jacket reducing/file trim die for that purpose. 9mm case for size comparison.




And in this picture jacket that started as 1.18" (30mm) blank on fourth draw to reduce it to 0.551" (14mm).



And on same picture for Manleyjt, door latch opened. Really simple and strong thing, designed by my father, I just build it.
Be careful what you wish for, you might just get me for your neighbor .



Kaj

[Bullseye93]

thanks again for the info ! I wish you could be my neighbor ! My father built a house near my home why don´t you come down here LOL ... it´s a bit hotter than there ! and you don´t have to wait to shoot in our range because no one likes target shooting or guns

Have a nice day at the range !

[firefly1957]

Bullseye93 I have tried what you are saying but if I did not heat the copper strip I would punch a hole though the bottom before the jacket formed. This slowed things down It is the folding of the metal at the base of jacket that caused the problem And I have not tried to make the multi step process you have seen above. My attempt was in 45 caliber. I have had some luck rolling a thin piece of aluminum around a lead core(twice) and swaging if I can find some thin copper I may shoot some of those it is a pain to fold the bottom down to cover bullet base. I do not know if such a bullet would shoot well Because you need a consistent bullet base to get accuracy.