.38's in a .357?

[alamogunr]

I've got 3 double action revolvers in .357 mag. that I want to do a lot of practice with. What is the feeling of the members of this forum on using .38 spec. rather than .357 mag? Once I get the brass accumulated the cost will be about the same but in looking at cost of brass, either new or once fired on ebay or other auction sites, .38's are much cheaper. I prefer to do most of my high volume practice with loads well below max. The .38's will hold plenty of powder for this. I guess I am sensitive to the Freedom Arms caution against shooting shorter brass in their guns. Mine are a long way from FA. All loads will be with cast boolets.
Thanks,
John

[sundog]

The answer is in your question. Cost aside, which is a couple cents per case, use .357, because you said 'a lot'. Then you will avoid any unwanted carbon build up, especially at an unwanted time, and have to ream out that build up. Besides, straight wall pissola brass lasts many loadings, and it's not hard to down load a .357. You do what you want, but for me, I no longer use .38 Spl in .357 nor .44 Spl in 44 Mag. An ocassional excursion is not going to hurt anything. sundog

[9.3X62AL]

Ditto to Sundog's text. Those carbon/lead/gunk-fouled chambers are a PITA to clean out.

[David R]

You won't hurt a thing. It will work just fine. You WILL have to clean out the cylinder like those above said. If you don't and want to shoot 357, they won't fit.

38 cases are cheaper and easier to size.

You can use 38 Load Dats in a 357 case with no problem.

I never wore out the original 500 357 brass I bought.

Your post says I intend on using loads well below max. 38 brass will not take any more than 38 rated loads. It will split.

To answer your questioin, you can do it, but in the long run its easier to just load down the 357 cases.

[Rrusse11]

"I never wore out the original 500 357 brass I bought."

I lose it before I've 'shot it out', don't bother with the 38 Special. It ain't that much more expensive for 357. $83.49 for a thousand Starline at Midway. That'll last a lifetime IMHO. Or find a friendly local range and go through the bins.
Cheers,
R*2

[Willbird]

I will say that 38 is sure cheaper, it is 16-18 per thousand for once fired, just a few years back it was 7 or 8 per thousand

Bill

[KCSO]

When Practicing for PPC matches in the 70's I was issued and shot over 30,000 rounds of 38 special in a M28 Highway Patrolan revolver. I cleaned the gun after each session and had NO problems, no carbon build up and no damage to the gun. In our 28 man department we all carried 357 revolvers and we all practiced with 38's the same as most ever other department at that time. I spent time on the range at the state academy and saw no problems. Skeeter Skelton recommended a hot load 38 for use in a 357. If you intend to clean your gun you should have no problems with this. If ou are lax use the 357 brass.

[beagle]

I'd safely say that 75% of the shooting in my .357 Magnums has been using .38 Special cases. It's safe and if you clean right after firing, you'll have no problems.

If you're wanting to get the most out of the .38 Special cases as I'm sure you will, do a little research on data for the old .38/44 S & W Outdoorsman. It's available in older Lyman and Ideal manuals but is no longet published in current manuals.

In the past, Brian Pierce has written an article in Handloader magazine on it and Paco Kelley on Sixgunner.com has an article on it.

These loads surpass .38 Special ++P loads and usually run in excess of 1,000 FPS with a bullet like the 358429 and are pretty good field loads. Just insure that none gravitate to some of the less well built revolvers.

I shoot a bunch in my Ruger Blackhawk and also in my Marlin .357 carbine./beagle

[swheeler]

Alamo; clean the cylinders good after a day of shootin' you'll never know the difference- I keep 2000+ 38's loaded for 357.

[Iron River Red]

Have any of you guys ever heard of a 38 short? I wanted to try shooting something really light for the cowboy action matches and got to looking at reduced velocity 38's. Well, I started scrounging around in my brass bin and uncovered some 38 s&w cases. Hummpf! I thought why not try them? I used my 38 Special dies and was able to successfully load them up (with a little creativity) and they went right in the gun.

To make a long story short, I loaded a 100gr swc and .7gr of Titewad and they shot great! Wow, this is even better than the 38 Sp. So I get on the phone to Midway and in a few days I have 1000 new Starline brass. So I take them and load them up with the new 38 s&w dies and get ready for some fun...

Well it turns out that the Starline brass has a little thicker wall than the Remington cases do. Now, they won't fit the cylinder. Ouch!

I really wanted to shoot them because of the case capacity and the trickle of powder makes them real cheap to shoot.

I took to trimming the 38 sp down to the length of a 38 s&w and started shooting them. I have them down to 375fps and real consistent!

Well, thinking about the lead buildup I tried to put a 357 back in the gun and it still went right in. There has been 250 of these shorties thru each gun and I didn't clean them before the 357 went in.

I guess what I have observed is, there will be a certain amount of lead buildup when shooting the shorter cases, but it may be over-hyped.

I don't condone shooting that much without at least a tornado brush thru the bore and cylinder, but I didn't have one with me that day. Cowboy shooters will go thru a couple thousand rounds a week if they are staying sharp.

Take this personal experience for what it is worth... it and 50 cents will still get you a cup of coffee in some places.

[StarMetal]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but here goes. The 38 S&W is just not a shorter 38 special. The 38 S&W actually had different case dimensions then just being shorter. It's alittle thicker. Because some 38 special and 357 mag revolver have generous chambers is the reason the 38 S&W chamber in those guns. Now I'm sure if you loaded those Starline brass using 38 special dies, that they would fit your chamber. I have a set of Bonanza 38 spcl/357 dies in which the sizer die doesn't size the cases down enough to fit all revolvers, so I had to buy a RCBS sizer die.

Joe

[Iron River Red]

Are you saying the RCBS die would have sized the 38 s&w case enough to fit my cylinder?

I bought the Lee 3 die set and they would not go in my cylinder. So I took the 38 spl dies and ran the 38 s&w case thru them. The case would go all the way except for the last 1/8" or so. I seeing the case dimensions are very close to the 38 spl except by .001 on the od of the case and head. I guess the Remington was thinner walled and the cylinder was generous. This allowed me to use the 38 s&w in the 38 spl cylinder.

I would still like to find a fast way to trim the 38 spl down to the length of the 38 s&w.

[StarMetal]

well after reading what you wrote...no. I'm not saying an RCBS sizer die sizes smaller then another brand. I just happen to have bought a RCBS die is all. Sounds like your handgun has fairly tight chambers. Actually the 1/8 inch they wouldn't go sounds like the solid part of the case, the part just ahead of the rim with just the primer flash hole through it. You might take a sized Remington and a Starline and measure where the Starline is thicker. That is after you size them in a 38 special die.

Joe

[wills]

Starline lists 38 short Colt on its website.

[StarMetal]

Wills

I believe that is what the poster bought from Midway was the 38 S&W. The short Colt is little thinner body wise but the rim is alot larger.

Joe

[StarMetal]

oops! My mistake, he did buy the 38 Short Colt. Now that is interesting that it didn't size down enough in the 38 special die to fit.

Joe

[StarMetal]

I believe once you get that thick portion sized down that you will be okay using the 38 special dies there on out. I thought at first maybe size them down with a 9mm Luger die but the luger round is actually wider near the web/base. So I looked at the 380 Auto. Now that is smaller. You might try a few in a 380 sizer die see what you get. Becareful when trying to size down the solid portion of a case in a smaller sizing die because it's very possible and easy to crack the die.

Joe

[wills]

I think one could get tapioca and blow it through a soda straw to achieve comparable ballistics, as well as eliminating the brass rod CAS shooters carry to push the boolit on through the barrel.

[Scrounger]

How about trying a .222 or .223 sizing die? Perhaps even a small base die...

[Iron River Red]

Wills is about right on the ballistics of tapioca. The 375fps is really like a big fart, but it works...

I started testing the load simply while sitting in the barn and shooting it at a 2x4 lying nearby. The bullet just stuck the nose into the soft wood. I pulled it out with my fingers and dropped it back in the sizing die and it didn't deform enough to leave any sizing marks on it. So, being the mischievious type, I loaded it again... I wound up shooting that one bullet 11 times before I got tired of getting up and going and getting it. HAh!

Back to the case sizing, I tried using the 38spl and just could not get it to size down far enough on the case to get it into the cylinder. I guess Starmetal was correct about it being the solid part of the case, but the part that was unsized was in the tapered area [lead in] of the die.

The Remington case was not available from Midway. I just sent the cases back and started trimming the 38spls down instead.

Do you guys think the .223 or .380 dies will get the size down in the head area? If so, I would love to just order more of the 38 s&w to save time.