I use this powder at this weight under a SAECO #446 (200 grain flatnose) cast as a Bruce B Soft Point as venison medicine. No shots on game this season, unfortunately.Originally Posted by pulaski
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I use this powder at this weight under a SAECO #446 (200 grain flatnose) cast as a Bruce B Soft Point as venison medicine. No shots on game this season, unfortunately.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Howdy Pard
Enjoyed reading your Post and the responses. I’m definitely a 44-40 enthusiast having owned period Winchester 73 since early 1980’s but haven’t hunted with it ... shoot it for fun and use it for Cowboy Action Shooting. It is an easy cartridge to reload but I recommend going slow and steady as non-Starline brass is thin and will bend/crumple if you are discourteous with it. And be sure to add a good crimp or the rounds can “accordion” on you. Never happened to me! Never? Well ... hardly ever.
That said, I wouldn’t have a qualm about using it for short-range deer hunting and suspect it would hold it’s own against the smaller feral pigs.
Note of caution: don’t think I’ve seen mention of the rifle you’re going to use ... or I just missed it. If it’s a black-powder era Winchester or Marlin, for sure do not use loads that exceed the speed of the original loads for the cartridge. You might even consider using black powder loads that won’t over-stress the rifle and will still give you a formidable load. With modern Winchester or Marlin rifles or clones ... then you can load up to near-44 Mag velocities.
All in all, I suspect you’ve got some good times ahead.
Adios
Fort Reno Kid
I don't own this particular .44-40, but am quite familiar with the history of its use. It's a Rossi '92 with a 20" brl from back in the 1980's. Being made of modern steel, the owner uses a Lee 200gr RNFP paper-patched over 21gr of 2400, a load only suitable in a modern '92, Marlin '94 or Ruger Blackhawk. That load is in .44 mag territory. It's been bringing a deer, sometimes two to the table for 25 years or so. Shots are usually 80 yards or less due to terrain and nature reclaiming old farmland. To my recollection only one deer was lost, but it was questionable whether it was actually hit. The shooter was convinced it was but the usual evidence couldn't be found. Every deer properly hit was down within 40 yards or so, usually less.
Last edited by yeahbub; 12-11-2017 at 06:42 PM.
About 17 years ago I had a chance at a new Marlin 94 in 44/40 WCF for a fair price ($400 range). Shoulda woulda coulda, I had been off work for almost a year and cash was a mite scarce at the time--I was in fact working at the gun store where this example appeared in an attempt to put some coin in my pockets. I sold it and got a small commission, which was the mature thing to do at the time (I do like keeping the lights on and eating dinner). That "pass" does still haunt me, though. The 92 Winchester and 94 Marlin variants in 44/40 offer MUCH more to the handloader than the '73 Winchester's modest capabilities, though as a practical matter the '73-level 44/40 remains a decent deer whacker if the user actually HUNTS and doesn't try an "Adobe Walls" shot.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
Hello again guys!
I apologize for my lack of presentation skills....sometimes I just seem to jump right in without an explination.
Looking at Lyman's reloading manual #49 page 299, (Double check my numbers) Lyman lists 2400 powder in use with the Speer 200gr JSHP bullet #4425. 24" Universal receiver 1:36" twist. Cases trimmed to 1.295 and an AOL of 1.600. Those measurements (plus some misc measurements) with Starline brass, using QL...gives a bullet seating depth of .313" as well as the pressures noted.
Lyman Manual....vs...QL (Quickload) Data
grains/powder/velocity/cup/QL psi CIP
Group I Rifles (Lyman lists ten rifles).....Thats nineteen different firearms chambered for the 44-40
16gr/2400/1,183fps/11,900/15,000 (fps=Current Factory Velocities) Normal Loads
Group II Rifles (Lyman lists nine rifles).....Thats nineteen different firearms chambered for the 44-40
18gr/2400/1,380fps/14,500/19,000 (fps=Original Historical Velocities) +P Loads due to higher than max pressures
20gr/2400/1,638fps/19,000/25,753 (fps=1903 (1910) Factory "High Velocity" Replication) +P+ Loads due to excessive high pressure
Personally I will not shoot anything in my Marlin with CIP estimated pressures over 26,000psi CIP, we all have our limitations. My goal was to replicate the 1903, more yet...the 1910 "High Velocity" ballistics....not to try and make the 44-40 into a 44 magnum as so I have been accused. I consider these HV loads as 44-40 "+P+" loads for those that like to use the "+P" status.
Reputable writers have been using and publishing the +P type loads that replicate original 1,300fps velocities ( but higher than black powder pressures) in magazines and online articles for years.
For all the nay sayers, dudes, weekend range worriers and city slickers.....the loads are right there in the reloading manual!!
PS: Not in Lymans #49 but is in #47 is the 240gr lead bullet information and Reloder 7 that produce 1,200fps at "Group I" rifle category pressures. The same info is/was listed on Lee's 44-40 reloading 3-die-set pamphlet.
Edited: Although the modern 1,300 fps velocities replicate original velocities using both black powder and early smokeless powder, the modern pressures generated are above SAAMI/CIP max pressures. I call modern 1,300fps velocities +P loads because of the higher than standard pressures of the earlier black powder and smokeless powder ballistics. The 1,400fps-1,600fps step in velocities I call +P+ loads.
CIP vs SAAMI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_...essure_testing
From this past season:
I don't know what the exact load was, I keep the rifle in the mudroom gun rack for coyotes that wander into the yard, and thought I had the magazine full of BP loads. But when the rifle went off, I heard the soft CRACK of a smokeless load rather than the BOOM of BP....no smoke either! Anyhow, it was a 220 gr. cast FP from an NOE mould with an MV of around 1300.
FWIW I've found a heavily compressed load of Swiss 3Fg in my 44-40 and original Winchester 38-40's provide velocities that exceed their original loads. I've gotten right at 1400 fps oUT of the 38-40's. But there's no need in it. Both cartridges realistically are 100 yd. hunting cartridges and a 1400 fps load isn't going to kill any better than a 1200 fps load.
35W
The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions.
There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand.
NRA Life Member
Accuracy is everything and sometimes that can be achieved with higher velocities....but with the 1:20 twist, not always
Below is just some of my experience. Although it is not gospel, I have enjoyed myself and had fun shooting this historic cartridge.
Target #134 shows my 6 shot results from 50 yards....I know just 50!
Attachment 213393
Target #140 is the same bullet but slightly higher loading. Again from only 50 yards but only 5 shots.
Attachment 213394
Target #139, again @ 50 yards
Attachment 213395
Stepping it up a notch out to 100 yards
Target #164 & #165
I was not planning on saving these two targets but decided to at the last minute. Both shot groups were made aiming at the upper right red square. My scope is set for my particular hunting "go-to" group @ 75 yards and I was not ready to adjust the scope.
#164 210gr JHP grouped 2 1/8"
#165 240gr SWC-HP grouped 4 7/8"
Attachment 213396
I never expected the 240gr to perform very well past 75 yards but the 210 looks promising.
I am also still working on the 180gr XTP load for 100 yards
Very nice shooting.
This is mine at 200 yds., it's a 24" steel plate so I guess the group is 6"-8". I'm pretty proud because I was able to regulate the ladder sights.
Even at 300 they're pretty darned close.
35W
The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions.
There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand.
NRA Life Member
Sweet shooting Whelen!!! I wish my eyes would let me revert back to iron sights but that just isnt gonna happen! That is one nice looking rifle!Very nice shooting.
This is mine at 200 yds., it's a 24" steel plate so I guess the group is 6"-8". I'm pretty proud because I was able to regulate the ladder sights.
Even at 300 they're pretty darned close.
35W
Can I add your deer kill to the 44 blog page?
You bet! Where could a feller read your blog?
35W
The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions.
There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand.
NRA Life Member
I grouped a few important topics from a couple reputable shooters with their permission as main topics on the web page. For the blog posts, click the "blog post" link in the nav bar. Let me know how user friendly it is.
Main Page - https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/
Blog Posts - https://www.44winchestercenterfirecartridges.com/blog
2017 Hunt Post - https://www.44winchestercenterfireca...2017-Deer-Hunt
Always looking for good 44-40 stories to post!!!
Last edited by Savvy Jack; 02-05-2018 at 07:12 PM.
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