Can I use .38 special brass?

[Kermit2]

I've purchased a Ruger New Model Blackhawk in .357 magnum. I'm going to load some light / mid range loads for plinking, target, etc. I've not settled on a particular load yet and will be testing for a good load for this revolver. I'm using a 158 grain cast lswc bullet. I cast these using a Lyman 358477 mould. I mix wheel weights with pure lead in a 50-50 mixture, use Lyman Ideal lube, and size to .358. I'm going to use 5.4 grains of Universal and also 6.0 grains of Unique over a Winchester small pistol primer.

Can I use these loads in .38 special cases, or will this create a dangerous situation? I have an abundance of .38 special cases and wondered if I could use them for this. Advice will be appreciated. Thank you!

[Ben]

Kermit2 :


No, don't use 6.0 of Unique in a 38 Spec. case with the 358477. Your BlackHawk may very well hold it, but you're moving into a danger zone.

A better load with Unique is 4.5 grs.to start and 5.0 grs. as your Max.

Everything else looks good.

If you feel that you still need 6.0 grs. of Unique, then load your 477's in 357 Mag. cases with the 6.0 Unique load.

You won't find any Alliant Powder Co. data for a 158 gr. lead bullet in the 38 Spec. with 6.0 grs. of Unique.

We need to respect their opinions............When it comes to SAFETY, you'll only get one chance to do it right.

[HATCH]

I load 5.5 grains of unique with a 158gr boolit
That is a 38sp Plus P+P load
I shoot it in a Model 28 N frame smith (44 mag frame)

for a Standard 38 load I would do 4.7 grains of unique
Most people on here use 5 grains

[Larry Gibson]

Suggest 5.5 gr unique under the 358477 in .38 cases. That is a +P .38 load and shouldn't pose any immediate problems in any .38 Special revolver (Might in some non +P rated revolvers if a lot of them are fired). That load shoots very well in my .357s and and my M15 S&W .38, it is one I use a lot.

Larry Gibson

[felix]

Standard "hot" load is 5.0 Unique with 358477 as per Ben. Accuracy in most revolters is there. If you cannot hold the gun via recoil, drop the load down, also like advised by Ben. No point in loosening up a light gun for no reason. Use BE/700X/Clays loads at 3.5 grains for normal playing around. ... felix

[Kermit2]

The loads I posted were ones I've used in the past in .357 cases. They were developed based on .357 data. The reason for the question was because I have quite a bit of .38 special brass and wondered if it was safe to put to use with these loads. Since I was uncertain I thought I'd seek advice from more experienced handloaders. I'll just continue to use these loads with .357 brass.

[HATCH]

according to the current Allant Manual

38 sp (standard)
158 gr Speer LSWC 4.7 Unique 1.440" @815fps

38 sp +P
158 gr Speer LSWC 5.2 Unique 1.440" @919fps

[Larry Gibson]

My .38 Special +P data is based on Lymans data for a 158 gr cast bullet and what it took to equal the 150 gr Winchester HP load using 358477 and Unique. My Oehler M43 with strain gauge on a Contender .357 barrel says the psi are the same and less than 18,000 psi(M43).

Larry Gibson

[megafatcat]

Not a suggestion, but if the COAL was maintained for the .357 (seat the boolit out .1") in the .38 case, wouldn't the powder space be OK for the heavier load?

What say the safety sages?

[wiljen]

If there is even a slight chance that anyone would ever think about picking up one of your loads and putting into something other than a 357, don't do it. What happens when the kids don't know after you are gone what those loads were? What happens when a buddy grabs a handful and sticks them in his model 10 while your back is turned? I trim 357 brass so I can shoot 358429s in my model 28s. Yes, I could use 38 cases to do the same but this way they still have a 357 Magnum headstamp and thus no confusion as to what they are. 357 Brass is cheap enough - if you need some, I'll even volunteer to send you a few to keep you from creating a hazard for others.

[Ben]

wiljen :

Several good points made. Safety is paramount.

Ben

[NHlever]

I ran the suggested loads through QuickLoad, and Ben is right. Six grains of Unique behind the 357477 is over the maximim +P load pressure. Using 5 grains is much better although 5.5 grains does show that it is in the upper working +P pressure range. Before I had a .357 I used +P (probably +P+ loads) for my heavy 38 Special loads in my old K-38, and never had any trouble, but I sure wouldn't follow that practice now!

[fryboy]

i cant add much except to state that there's more than one reason why every reloading manual i have read states "do not use 38 special brass with 357 magnum loads" ( IMHO it's not just to cover their collective six )

[pistolman44]

Using 38 special you'll probably ring the cylinders in a 357 mag revolver. Using the short brass may cause some fouling in the chambers. Just make sure you clean it good and inspect your chambers. That's what happened to me in a Dan wesson. I still shoot 38's but just clean it good when shooting lead.

[Char-Gar]

It was a fairly common practice "back in the day" to used very hot loaded 38 Special loads in the .357 magnum pistol with no problems. There are two issues to be considered in doing so.

1. 38 Special brass was not designed for the pressures of .357 or near .357 loads. The life of the cases will be shortened and there is always the possibility of a split or separation.

2, Then there is the issue of safety. Somebody might slip on of these little bombs into the chamber of a light weight 38 Special with nasty results.

It needs to be mentioned that there were and are 38 Special loads intended for the Smith and Wesson 38-44 Heavy Duty. These loads run higher than 38 Special +P with no problems in the big N frame guns. So 6/Unique would be in that area, but there remains the safety issue per No. 2 above.

When the RCMP still used Smith Model 10's, they used ammo that produced an honest 1,000 fps from a 5" bbl. with the 158g lead HP bullets. These loads also were above US +P limits. The load you are thinking about would duplicate the RCMP load.

So, in the end, my counsel to folks who ask such question on this board is that if you have to ask, then don't do it. Best stick to loads well within the standard pressure envelope. 4.5/Unique to 5/Unique is marvelous for that purpose. Oh yes, there is no way, such loads will "ring" the charge holes in the cylinder!

[Bret4207]

I've been using 5.0 Unique with a variety of 150-160ish gr boolits for decades in 38 brass. I've not encountered a problem in anything from a M-38 to an M-28.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I loaded some .44 Special rounds using 6 gr of Unique under a cast 240 gr cast boolits and fired them off in a Charter Arms bulldog pug. BAD MOVE.....It about tore offa my hand from my wrist.

I fired off only two shots and then put down the gun. After the numbness went away I unloaded the revolver and went home. I had over two hundred of these wrist busing rounds to tear down and I put off the chore.

Recently I fell into a deal for a Ruger Bisley BH in .44 Special with a 5.5 inch barrel. Yes I did try those wrist busting 6 gr Unique loaded rounds and the added weight of the gun made it only slightly hot.

By experimenting with Unique I found that a very comfortable loading was to load 5.5 gr of Unique under my cast 240 GR LSWCHP boolit. Even more fun was had when I started to load Swiss 1 1/2 Black Powder under that same boolit. The recoil was now a big push against the hand rather then a sharp punch with the smokeless powder.

The next step is to download for the Charter Arms bulldog with less black powder and a filler between the powder and the base of the boolit. I have a buncha PSP tiny little round thingies and I wonder about maybe 4 grains of Unique?

[Bret4207]

Ell Tee, send those 200 rounds to me. I use 6-6.5 gr Unique and a 429421 in my BD all the time. That loads no where near as bad as some others I've tried.

[HATCH]

My dad likes his 44sp load @ 8.5 grains unique with a 240 grain SWC.
But its out of a real gun - a S&W model 624 (6 inch).
Its funny that 41 mag,44sp, and 44 mag, he likes them all the same load (8.5 grains)
Basically they all shoot the same except for the size of the hole in the paper


@Will - I load my brass cased 38sp @ 5.5 grains of unique (358477 boolit). I load my nickle plated cases 4.5 grains of unique (same boolit). I know that if its a nickle plated case its safe to shoot in my J-frames but if its brass then its for my Mod 28. I have about 6K brass cases and about 1500 nickle plated. Also if I give any loaded rounds to my friends to shoot (while we are at the range), I only give them the nickle plated.

[Ben]

HATCH

If you die ( and I certainly hope that you don't ) , who will know those details when they pick up those loads ? ?

I know that if its a nickle plated case its safe to shoot in my J-frames but if its brass then its for my Mod 28

Those 5.5 gr. loads put into an old turn of the century 38 spec. could spell trouble.