RotoMetals2Ballisti-CastStainLess Steel MediaGraf & Sons
Inline FabricationTitan ReloadingLee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters Supply
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 37

Thread: .357-44 Bain and Davis Handi-Rifle?

  1. #1

    .357-44 Bain and Davis Handi-Rifle?

    Gentlemen: Anyone done a conversion on a .357 H&R Handi-Rifle yet? Or does anyone know if this rifle is capable of such a conversion?- Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    165
    I have not had any experience with this cartridge/conversion, but the following thoughts come to mind.
    Although the bore is the same, the cartridge is a shouldered one with a much larger case head. The increased recoil power, in conjunction with the shouldered cartridge, will result in much higher case head pressure against the receiver face. I don't know if the steel in the receiver is designed to handle this increase pressure or not.
    I rechambered a Rossi 357 Mag stainless steel single shot to 357 Maximum and have had no problems at all. The pressures are higher, but the cartridge is straight-walled and the recoil casehead pressure isn't that much higher than the Mag.
    Someone with more engineering knowledge than I that can convert the pressures involved into usual recoil data will have to take over here.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    west coast
    Posts
    67
    It's true that the breechface thrust is increased when you go from a small diameter casehead to a larger diameter casehead, assuming chamber pressures are the same.

    For the Handi Rifle, since the model is available in .44 Magnum caliber, the increased breech thrust is no problem.

    For a quick calculation of breech thrust force, compare the casehead diameters of the two parent cartridges: .357 Magnum vs .44 Magnum. You will find that the larger cartridge has some 40% to 50% greater breech thrust. The Handi Rifle can take that no problem.

    It is my opinion that the .357-44 B&D conversion is not all that practical. It's original intent was to give true .357 Magnum velocities in a revolver. Such converted revolvers need custom loaded ammunition, and case conversion is a pain-in-the-butt. If you are looking for red-hot .357 velocities, you might consider the conversion to .357 Maximum. The brass is hard to find and expensive, but that is no more trouble than trying to make your own .357-44 ammo.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    165
    JOHN TRAVELER described much better what I was trying to say about breech thrust.

    I do have experience with the .357 Maximum conversion from .357 Mag and it is well worth the cost. You get all of the benefits of the wide variety of .357 Mag reloading components and powders that are suitable for this cartridge, with the added benefit of being able to shoot .357 Magnum and .38 Special rounds in the same gun. New brass is available, made by Remington, at about $28/100 cases. You must use a Small Rifle Primer, due to the higher case pressures possible, rather than the Sm. Pistol Primer, but the cost is about the same. Velocities in excess of 2000 ft/sec are possible with 180 gn jacketed bullets and the right powder combination.

    Depending on what you are hunting as to whether you need to make the conversion, but for game up to white-tailed deer, the .357 Max is ideal. I like mine.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Island of Misfit Toys
    Posts
    6,777
    Anyone wanna guess how I feel about the 357Maximum conversion?

    357/44 B&D only has novelty going for it.


    My 357Max custom encore pistol has paid for itself 10 fold just in the pounds of meat money saved.

  6. #6
    Thankyou everyone for your input and posts. I got interested in the handi-rifle for a few reasons. One reason is the acquisition by me of a supply of .357 components wich in turn got me into looking at the .357 in a rifle platform. After research into other threads here and the concensus that the .357 handi-rifle has a long throat and can easily benefit with either cut down .357 maximum cases or just reamed out to .357 max and be done with it. Probabaly the latter would be the way I would go if I buy the handi-rifle. And the price of these rifles won't break the bank to badly is the last reason. I was visiting with a friend of mine and during the visit the conversation turned to the Hand-rifle in .357 and the possible conversion to .357 Maximum if acquired. He for many years used the Thompson Contender in both the .357/44 B&D and .357 maximum eventually selling both those barrels off. He still has many components cases and dies for the 357/44 B&D. He mentioned his revitilized interest in the .357/44 B&D and that the barrels for the contender are hard to find was thinking of either turning a .357 magnum barrel for the contender into the .357/44 B&D or the handi-rifle concept got both of us thinking in that possibility. The 357/44 B&D interest to him is more of a novelty than needing to push the .357 bullet to it's limits.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,057
    I would go with the Max. The Bain-Davis was an interesting set up, but the Max will cover about anything going with less hassle.
    Back when I did IHMSA hard, I had a Max. I chambered anything I could in that caliber.
    It is a good flat shooting cartridge. The 180gn sil jacketed does well on steel, and game.
    I would go the max. Sell the goodies on E-bay.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    dragonrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Linwood, Ma. USA
    Posts
    3,697
    +1 more for the 357 max.
    Paul G.
    Once I was young, now I am old and in between went by way to fast.

    The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun.
    -- R. Buckminster Fuller

  9. #9
    Boolit Master part_timer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    North East Indiana
    Posts
    338
    +2 on the max. We have 2 rifles and 2 pistols in it.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    165
    If you are interested in finding out what other people have done with the .357 Maximum cartridge, Google '.357 maximum' and click on the several websites that appear. Mike Bellm and Steve Cutter have done a lot of testing of the usages of this cartridge and have put their research on the web for all to read and study. It is well worth your while just to broaden your knowledge by visiting their sites.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Island of Misfit Toys
    Posts
    6,777
    A partial pictoral list of some of my personal 357Max testing. These are the ones that happen to be on my photo account at this time. (closest was 30 yards the farthest was 240 yards). The recovered boolit was a Glen Larsen 358-180FN after is SMACKED a buck at "long distance" for this caliber and lodged in the hide on the off shoulder. I have been using the BRP 360-180 FN the last couple of years.....they both work extremely well in my MGM barreled 15 inch Encore.

















    A good 180-200 grain cast boolit over some N-120 in this easy going cartridge and some practice is all it takes to make happy pictures and venison steaks.

  12. #12
    Michael- Nice harvesting! What kind of fps are you getting with v-n120 and the 180gr.,1600-1700?

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    165
    If ANYONE still has doubts about the capabilities of the .357 Max cartridge, Michael's trophies should eliminate all of them. And these animals were taken with a short-barreled gun. My Rossi Max has a 22" barrel, which allows me a velocity advantage when the load has been developed for the gun. Not that I think any additional advantages are needed. Most impressive hunting! Congratulations Michael!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master leftiye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sagebrush flats, Utah
    Posts
    8,253
    Makes a REALLY nice handi rifle. (Yup, I gots one!) luvvvitt!
    We need somebody/something to keep the government (cops and bureaucrats too) HONEST (by non government oversight).

    Every "freedom" (latitude) given to government is a loophole in the rule of law. Every loophole in the rule of law is another hole in our freedom. When they even obey the law that is. Too often government seems to feel itself above the law.

    We forgot to take out the trash in 2012

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Island of Misfit Toys
    Posts
    6,777
    Quote Originally Posted by Who's this Guy ? View Post
    Michael- Nice harvesting! What kind of fps are you getting with v-n120 and the 180gr.,1600-1700?
    With a Remington 7.5 small rifle spark plug and * 22.5 grains of N-120 = 2150 FPS ....almost a 35Remington ballisticly, but the 35REM is not Southern Michhigan legal if it was in the very same pistol because it has a shoulder.........GO FIGURE

    Alliant M&P 300 will do the same basic job as N-120 if you find yourself not finding N-120.

    You will also see some AA1680 data that looks good too. I personally do not know where they pulled that data from.....I cannot get the upper end loads to fit in the case not to mention being very impressed with this powder in my max.

    *this is not a max load in my gun but it may be in your gun sneak up on it please *

  16. #16
    Michael, those are impressive balistics to me at 2150. I really don't have any experience with this cartridge and the data I have always looked at had 180-200 grain bullets in the 1600-1700 fps range with win 296 and h110 and h4227. I will say the .357 maximum is intriguing and would be a nice experiment to work up loads for a particular gun like a handi-rifle etc. Most of my reloading consists of rifle cartridges like 8mm mauser and small pistol calibers like .32acp and 9mm luger.

  17. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Island of Misfit Toys
    Posts
    6,777
    Most of the data in the books has a revolvers cylinder gap in the equation. A closed breech has no such leakage. My load was worked in a 15 inch FUll bull barrelled (straight pipe) Custom Encore. BaBore has a tapered carbine barrel on his Encore and gets somewhat similar data to mine. Both barrels were made by Match Grade Machine.

    If I was playing with a H&R I would sneak up on my load very cautiously. Not that I do not trust the H&R it is just a different gun is all.

  18. #18
    Good point about the cyl. gap. When I tend to think of both calibers of the .357/44 B&D and .357 maximum I forgot these cartridges and the revolver usage, I tend to think in the Thompson Center Contender mindset. Working up to a load to a particular gun regardless of what your shooting is always good advice, the fired case will let you know when it's gettin' to hot in the kitchen.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    GLL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,430
    Bain & Davis just happens to be my gunsmith here in San Gabriel, CA ! They still do conversions of S&W Model 27 and 28 cylinders on a regular basis. Simple and inexpensive ! It is nice since all you need is an extra cylinder.

    Jerry

    B&D .357/44 on the left, .22REM Jet on the right:
    S&W .38/44 Outdoorsman Accumulator

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

    Geraldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sweet Land of Liberty Valance
    Posts
    1,437
    My first wildcat experience was with .357 B&D in a TC Contender barrel. JD Jones charged $25 to ream a .357 barrel I had, bought a set of dies, and I went to work.
    I don't understand what John Traveler is talking about regarding case forming, because .357 B&D from new .44 mag is as easy as it gets.

    I know that .357 B&D won't do anything a .357 Max can't, but I never met a .35 caliber I didn't like.
    Most people would sooner die than think, in fact, they do so. -B. Russell

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check