Lyman Sharps in .38-55 information desired

[Froggfuzz]

doubs43,

Thanks to you for the info. Lyman (to no one's surprise) recommended that 378248 bullet, saying it performed well in their testing.

Did I read your load data correctly for 231 - 2.5 grains?

My buddy has a rifle identical to yours and will appreciate your information, too.

Lyman also told me that the specs for the bore diameter is .378" and the advertisement says 1-18" twist.

You are the second person to suggest the longer Starline cases. Why do you use the longer ones as opposed to the 2.080" cases? Does the 1885 have a longer chamber? Did you do a Cerrosafe cast of it?

I have 30 new W-W cases given to me by the buddy with the 1885 and they are the shorter 2.080" cases, which I am sure will fit the Lyman. I will have to check my chamber to see if I can accommodate the longer cases. I do like Starline cases, but note that Starline is waiting for sufficient orders to run either or both of the case lengths in .35-55.

With my shooting ability (due mostly to a cataract floater dead center in the pupil of my right eye - the master eye), I have problems using my receiver (peep) sights, but have an eye appt. soon and intend to discuss what can be done.

I am hoping to be able to shoot 200 yards like the old timers with the Lyman Sharps. While I know it's not a target rifle, per se, I am hoping that I can at least hit my gongs at 200 yards in a regular fashion. According to your results in that match, it is possible and without a lot of punishment to my rotator cuff injury.

Congratulations on your win, and again, thanks for the information.

Best wishes,

Froggfuzz

[GabbyM]

GabbyM,

Thanks for the picture and the advice. May I ask your alloy and what the expanded boolit struck. I hope it was a big buck and you got speed beef in the fridge now. And should you care to divulge it, what load and what rifle??

Regards,

Froggfuzz

I cast the bullets but a member LoneWolf shot those. Mashed up bullet had passed through a deer which was standing in front of a tree. He dug the bullet out of the tree. Deer was DRT. I think 75 yards. He shoots a long barrel Handi rifle and loads it up with 375 Win data. Full charge of 3031 for an estimated 1,800 fps or so. The plain based bullets do just fine with very small groups and no leading. The alloy was pretty soft for the velocity IIRC a BHN#9.

All the data and story was embedded in the photo under the properties field. Now I’ve “upgraded” to Windows 7 and can’t read the text boxes embedded in photos anymore.

I don’t know how strong the mini Sharps action is. If it was me, just for fun, I’d be shooting a BP load then a duplex load if I wanted more power. But I do know the amount of 3031 he had in the case was dependant upon the bullet being seated out long. Lonewolfs Handy rifle is one of the first ones with the black powder bore dimensions so most of the gas checked bullets won’t fit the fat bore. The Saeco tapered does. They make them in three weights.
For targets or BPCR something like the big Lyman 378674 is an obvious candidate. I’ve heard the big bullets step up felt recoil quite a bit but have not tried one. If I owned a Sharps I’d want one of the big Postal style bullets for long range targets for sure.

If you have a .375” bore the tapered bullet won’t do much good as the first band under the crimp grove is .375” then the last two bands are .382”.

[Froggfuzz]

Hey GabbyM,

Again thanks. Lyman tells me that they spec'd the bore to .378". I have some Meister bullets given by a friend. They mic .3795" and if Lyman is correct should do fine. I have .380 Oregon Trail ordered, and a Lyman 375248 ordered. Just for grins and giggles, I think I may start with a low-end dose of 3031 because it shoots well in my .30-30 Model 94 carbine and the .38-55 case is fairly close. I'm going to cast the 375248 Lyman softer because I do NOT plan to stress either the rifle or me. Lyman suggests keeping the smokeless loads within SAAMI specs for factory-loaded .38-55 ammo not .375 Winchester ammo.

That's in keeping with what I want. Most of my shooting will probably be done to shoot those tough ol' paper targets and my gongs. If I do deer hunt with it, here in central PA typical ranges are short and a 250 grain bullet at 1200 - 1400 FPS should penetrate a typical whitetail stem to stern if using a Texas heart shot or port to starboard for us Easterners. Given the journey taken by your bullet in the photo, it would be similar to my eliminating the tree and penetrating the deer only.

Regards and best wishes,

Froggfuzz

[doubs43]

doubs43,

Thanks to you for the info. Lyman (to no one's surprise) recommended that 378248 bullet, saying it performed well in their testing.

I have two 38-55 rifles; the Winchester High Wall and a Winchester 1894 Oliver F. Winchester Commemorative. The 248 grain Lyman boolit shoots great in both.

Did I read your load data correctly for 231 - 2.5 grains?

Yes. It is loaded first and once ignited by a standard large rifle primer, it helps to get the WC-860 powder that's loaded on top of it burning. The WC-860 is a surplus 50 caliber MG ball powder that is very slow. Recoil is more a shove than a sharp slap and velocity with the RCBS 312 BPS boolit (actual weight 318 grains) is in the 1350 fps range. I first began my duplex loads using AA-8700 which is no longer available. I load WC-860 as a direct substitute grain-for-grain and have not had to change my sight settings even a little.

My buddy has a rifle identical to yours and will appreciate your information, too.

Lyman also told me that the specs for the bore diameter is .378" and the advertisement says 1-18" twist.

You are the second person to suggest the longer Starline cases. Why do you use the longer ones as opposed to the 2.080" cases? Does the 1885 have a longer chamber? Did you do a Cerrosafe cast of it?

If your groove diameter is .378" then a boolit of .379 or .380" would likely give best accuracy but you won't know until you actually try them. Both of my Winchester rifles have a 1:18 twist.

I use Winchester (2.080") cases for the 248 grain Lyman boolit and the Starline (2.125") cases for the longer RCBS boolit. That allows me to use the same powder charge for both boolits. In the 1885, the RCBS boolit engages the rifling for a few thousands of an inch while the Lyman boolit is off the lands a few thousands. I have not taken a chamber cast of either rifle. I only us the Lyman boolit in the 1894.

I do weigh my boolits before sizing and lubing. I keep them in groups of 1 grain with one group as a center and a group on either side; e.g., my center group may be 247.0 ~ 247.9 with 246.0 ~ 246.9 and 248.0 ~ 248.9 as the bracketing groups. Any boolits falling outside those groups go back in the pot. For a match, I load only boolits from one group. Some shooters keep their boolits even tighter in weight and Mike Venturino writes that his are kept within .6 grains.

I have 30 new W-W cases given to me by the buddy with the 1885 and they are the shorter 2.080" cases, which I am sure will fit the Lyman. I will have to check my chamber to see if I can accommodate the longer cases. I do like Starline cases, but note that Starline is waiting for sufficient orders to run either or both of the case lengths in .35-55.

I bought my last Starline 2.125" cases from Track of the Wolf. Unless you plan on shooting the longer and heavier boolits in your Sharps, the short cases should work just fine. A friend has a Rolling Block in 38-55 and shoots a Lyman 264 grain gas check boolit cast from wheel weights. They drop from his mold about at 278 grains. He uses AA-2015 powder and every ram he hits at 350 yards goes down with authority. He uses the short cases.

With my shooting ability (due mostly to a cataract floater dead center in the pupil of my right eye - the master eye), I have problems using my receiver (peep) sights, but have an eye appt. soon and intend to discuss what can be done.

I am hoping to be able to shoot 200 yards like the old timers with the Lyman Sharps. While I know it's not a target rifle, per se, I am hoping that I can at least hit my gongs at 200 yards in a regular fashion. According to your results in that match, it is possible and without a lot of punishment to my rotator cuff injury.

Congratulations on your win, and again, thanks for the information.

Best wishes, Froggfuzz

Good luck with your eye appointment. Finding a load that will stay on a gong at 200 yards should not be difficult. The 38-55 is a wonderful cartridge IMO and great fun to shoot.

Best Regards,
doubs43

[Froggfuzz]

doubs43,

Thanks for being so specific and answering my every question. You have provided me with a wealth of information. Thanks too for your good wishes. I will be in touch and post my results as I soon as I get the rifle and try at least the first couple of loads.

Thanks to all who have shared their experiences.

Froggfuzz

[wgr]

the 30-30 brass is shorter than the 38-55

[kcajeel]

Gabby M,

Do you have the number of the tapered Saeco mold?
I'll pass that information to a friend that's looking for such an item.

Thanks, Jack

[GabbyM]

Gabby M,

Do you have the number of the tapered Saeco mold?
I'll pass that information to a friend that's looking for such an item.

Thanks, Jack

It's the 255 grain Saeco #738 . As I stated they make it in three weights. 225 , 255 and 300 grain. Find them on Saeco's traditional Mould chart.

For a single shot with a large diameter black powder spec barrel they IMHO are about as good as you can get for a hunting bullet. Since they are RNFP.
A straight tin lead alloy at 16 or 20 to one would be te best to hunt with.

3031 woirks realy well in the 38-55 or a duplex laod with BP for the smoke.

My gas checked Lyman #375449 will only make a .377" bullet.

I think BRP moulds has some nice 380" bullets on there list. IIRC

[mroliver77]

Ranch Dog has a great 235gr boolit for the .375/38-55. He now offers it in gas check or plain base.Here is a pic of mine cast in 30-1 before and after downing a 300lb hog through the boiler room.1400fps out of 1895 made Marlin Lever.

[Buckshot]

In the above photo is my M93 Marlin in 38-55. The small target is pretty representative as to what it'll do accuracy wise, without any special reloading prep work. That's 5 rounds in the 10 ring of a 100 yard slow fire small bore target. Cases at the time were the 2.080", Winchester headstamp. Load was 16.0grs of 2400 and the Saeco 225gr tapered FNFB. Saeco's offers 3 tapered PBFN slugs. They're 225gr, 255gr, and 300gr and are all the same design, just longer then the previous.

This Marlin also does well with the 250gr Lee. I shoot this slug 'as cast' at just a tad over .380". The Saeco's (I have all 3 sizes) drop at .382" and are sized .381". With a twist of 18" I doubt ou'll be able to utilze the 300gr slug. This Marlin and my Uberti Hi-Wall in 38-55 both have 16" twists and 300-310grs is about as heavy as they'll stabilize. Both the Marlin and the Uberti will chamber the original length 2.125" cases, and if your new Sharps will also I suggest that you use that length.



LEFT: 38-55 cartidge loaded with 48.3 grs GOEX 3Fg .030 cardwad and 0.200" compression. Bullet is swaged of 20-1 weighs 296.4grs and has a .225" deep HP. Paper is .0017" tracing paper and the OD is .3813". This round was chambered, locked up, and then ejected to check engraving at this OAL. You can see the engraving on the boolit and patch. RIGHT: More of the same as at left. Loaded in the 2-1/8" Starline cases.

................Buckshot

[GabbyM]

WOW Buckshot those swaged PP’d bullets have a serious cool factor.
Holy black to boot.

[Hogpost]

Just bought an OF Winchester Commemorative in 38-55, and eagerly looking forward to shooting it with BP, but it won't be here for a week. Lots of good info on this post, thanks all!
Doubs43, maybe you can give me some advance info:
1. Will your OFW chamber take the longer 1.125 Starline brass? Intend to start with the RCBS 37-250, and would like it as close to the rifling as I can get.
2. If so, any problems feeding with the longer round?
3. If you slugged your OFW, what did it measure?

[doubs43]

Just bought an OF Winchester Commemorative in 38-55, and eagerly looking forward to shooting it with BP, but it won't be here for a week. Lots of good info on this post, thanks all!
Doubs43, maybe you can give me some advance info:
1. Will your OFW chamber take the longer 1.125 Starline brass? Intend to start with the RCBS 37-250, and would like it as close to the rifling as I can get.
2. If so, any problems feeding with the longer round?
3. If you slugged your OFW, what did it measure?

Yes, the chamber on my Oliver F. Winchester Commemorative will accept the longer Starline cases (2.125"). As long as the cartridge OAL is kept at the proper length, they will also feed through the action OK.

I haven't done a chamber cast but all my boolits are sized .378" and I shoot the same loads in my Winchester Hi-Wall as well as in the OFW lever rifle. I do load some of the Starline long brass with the RCBS-312-BPS boolit that is pointed and too long to feed through the tube but that's good because they would be dangerous in the tube with that boolit design. I have fed them singly and they work just fine that way. The RCBS-312-BPS is an excellent design for longer distances. I use it for 350 yard rams with excellent success.

[Hogpost]

Cool, thanks; now I can load some first rounds while tapping my toes waiting.
(All I have to do is find some Starline long brass...)

[Irascible]

I don't think that any factory chambered for the short case length as this would have opened up a can of lawyer worms when some one tried to fire an original cartridge. The shorter case length came about when W-W introduced the collector lever guns in 32-40 and 38-55. Just a manufacturing and money saving change.
I have 4 38-55s. A M94 SRC, A Ruger #1(factory), a Browning 1885 TH and a Marlin 336 Cowboy. They all take the longer case available now from Starline (thanks Starline). They all have different size bores with special moulds needed for the M94 .379, The Ruger .3805 and the Marlin .380. A standard mould from RCBS works extremely well in the Browning .378. A custom mould for the Ruger and M94 came from LBT. I'm still working on the Marlin. You will need to slug your bore.
I tend to shoot hotter loads at long ranges of 200-300 yds. My favorite powders are Rel 7 and H322.

[Dlafoe]

I just bought the Lyman mini last week (38-55), haven't shot it yet. Fit and finish, wood, are decent enough. The #2 tang sight that came with it was a mess though. Riser post installed backwards and seized. I had to completely disassemble it (watch out for those spring-loaded ball bearings!), file it down to smooth operation, nice now that it's correct. I need to look at the twist with a rod yet, but the rifling seems verrrry shallow. I'll slug it and see what I get. I broke down and bought a box of the Winchester 250g factory loads ($$$$) for initial shooting ( which then I can reload). I querried Lyman about hotter loads (1600-1700fps) within SAAMI specs, they replied it was safe to max SAAMI, but since they didn't know what those are, they couldn't recomend them. That Winchester factory load should be perfectly adequate at reasonable
iron site distance. Nice gun- hope it shoots well!

[Dlafoe]

Slugs at 0.375, there is a bit of play in the breech block as well. I pulled the block to clean after I bought it and it appears to have been factory-fired.

[Dlafoe]

The breech block broke after only 6 shots (maybe on the first shot?).
I sent it back to Chiappa in Ohio and asked for a replacement
rifle. Nice concept, but poorly executed.

[wgr]

30-30 brass is shorter than 2.080. the weight differances could be in the cal. the 22 would be heaver

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Save your hard earned dollars get a Shiloh or if cant afford that a C'Sharps 75 in 38-55 you will be Tons happier!

KW
The Lunger