Copper tubing jacket and bullet from BTSniper 257 dies!

[BwBrown]

It's one of my goto rifles. With a 75 grain bullet it has hit chucks at 500+ measured yards. A lot of fun - you walk your shots up to them, they just sit there watching the dirt fly not knowing what is going on.

With a 120 grain bullet it will anchor a whitetail like someone pulled the earth out from under him.

But the Remington 700 weighs in just a bit over eight pounds - makes a long day in the woods seem a whole lot longer. I also have a 50's vintage Remington 760 pump in .257 Roberts that is a light woods carry - I don't load her near as hot though.

The 700 is the only real custom built gun I have. Back in it's early days the money she cost was quite a lot. Wouldn't buy a whole lot today though.

I've been thinking lately that I probably need a true 1,000 yard rifle. Not sure what it will turn out to be, but I surely do need one.

[Southern Son]

I am really hanging out to find out how these shot or will shoot. Have you had any good weather up there yet?

[BwBrown]

Well, the weather has broken, so to speak...

It was 79 degrees f today, in between thunderstorms the wind was gusting 15 to 20mph. The targets were flopping in the wind, even the fence rail to which I tacked the targets was moving in the wind. But it was an ok day to do some shooting.

The long and the short of it is this:
I had sorted out the handful of bullets into three and four shot groupings by weight.
Shot four groups at 200 yards.
They started at 4", each group was a tad heavier, and tighter, the fourth group was 3 1/2". Actually it was 1/8" high and 3" wide. That would be 1 1/2" at 100 yards, not entirely shabby, but could be worked up into a well shooting projectile.

Observations:
1) the rule of my rifle has always been: heavier + hotter = tighter

2) I think a slightly heavier core with soft lead might be pressed harder, being sure to eliminate the possibility of internal air pockets or voids. Might also give a bit of a lead tip.
(Looking "into" the hollow tips, you could see, I think, the cut end of the wire core, slightly off-center.) A heavy core seating step would be important.

3) Can't wait to get my hands on the dies, BT to do some experimentation and load workup, to start making some of these .257 slugs myself.
Please let me know how/when we can make this happen.

Thanks for the opportunity to give them a first test.
Bob

[BT Sniper]

"1/8" high and 3" wide"

As in horizontial stringing with only 1/8" varration in higth in the group? That would be pretty impressive if the horizontial varation of the group could be blamed on the wind

Yes it would seem a heavier core would entirly be possible giving you a 120ish or slightly heavier bullet.

Did you happen to shoot any of your trusted factory bullets during the same shooting session as these customs where shot? Would have been interesting to compare the two against each other in same weather conditions using the factory bullets as a control in the experiment. Either way it sounds like they have potential.

I can have the dies to you pretty soon. Got a few final touches to put on them for you. I'll send you a PM and we can work out the details.

Thanks for the initial report. I wanted to make sure you would be happy with the potential of this set of dies and the bullets they make before I sold them to you.

BT

[BwBrown]

No, I didn't take any of my regular loads. They are consistent,and are the result of hours of loading and shooting over a period of, literally, years. That said, I'm not the least bit disappointed with the copper jackets... Most any random commercial bullet, stuffed on top of a random load of powder would likely perform the same.

"1/8" high and 3" wide"

Both dimensions are somewhat skewed, the rifle is, under ideal conditions, a 3/4" gun. The 1/8 x 3 was at 200, so it was a 1 1/2" group at 100 yards. Not terrible. I'm convinced that with your dies and my Bonanza Co-ax, life will be pretty enjoyable - once I spend some time and burn up a few pounds of powder.

It sure wasn't a perfect day for shooting, but then, a bad day shooting is better than the best day at most work-a-day jobs!

I'll look for your PM.
Thanks again,
Bob

[Southern Son]

That is good shooting. I think that 1.5MOA on your first outing with a new Projectile of any type is quite good and possibly even a good omen. Thanks for posting that information, Bob. This swaging section is always very interesting. I would really love to see a recovered projectile after it has hit some ballistic media. Once again, thanks.

[BT Sniper]

Made some more bullets getting the die set ready for sale. It is really coming together nicly. The set up I have put together makes a perfect 120 grain bullet with wheel weight alloy core that matches the tip of the jacket perfectly to the top of the lead. Really make a good looking bullet.

I also experimented a bit and made some heavier bullets. Reuslts where perfect with a great looking lead tiped bullet. Made a couple at 130 grains and even one at 140 grains.

I'll post pcs soon.

All most got all the fine details of the dies worked out for you here BW. It will be a heck of a set of dies that's for sure.

I'll keep you all posted.

Swage On!

BT

[BT Sniper]

Here are some pics of bullets from customer set of dies.


100 grain, 120, 125, 130 and a 140 grain bullet. The lead tip formed better using wheel weight alloy then it did using pure soft lead.




Here are some 120 grain .257 bullets. The set up was perfect for forming this combination with the lead meeting perfect at the tip of the jacket.




Here is a cross section of the 120 grain 257 bullet made from copper tubing. Notice how well the base closed up. Can't even tell it used to be a hollow tube.




how about a FMJ !!! Formed no problem in the die inserted base first. This one had an open base. I will make one that is closed on the base and FMJ as well. Pretty cool die with it's possiblities!





and here is a cross section of the FMJ tip next to the base of the traditional formed sectioned bullet. I had to dig the lead out of the tip area and that is the slight scratches you see in the jacket.

All most done with this set of dies and it is looking real good. Made all these bullet on a Lee Classic and RCBS RC reloading press.


Good Shooting and Swage On!

BTSniper

[BwBrown]

BT,
All I can say is - "Amazing!"
They are right purty!!!
Bob

[PatMarlin]

Outstanding and congratulations BT...

Dies look awesome. What is your background in machining?

[Wayne Smith]

I want one!! Can I afford one?

[Armorer]

WOW! If I could get something like that for my .308s I would be a swageaholic!

Armorer

[BT Sniper]

.308 would be the same technique only using 5/16" copper tube instead. Think I'll order me up some and put one together. Of course you would have to reduce the .312 jacket to use in the 308 but it is completely possible.

I need to evaluate my cost and labor for this tubing jacket die but I think I may be able to offer it in the $300 range.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Just ordered up 50' of the 5/16 tubbing. Could probably find scrap tubbing for a lot cheaper but I'll see what I can come up with for copper tube jacketed 308 bullets now.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Outstanding and congratulations BT...

Dies look awesome. What is your background in machining?

Thanks Pat,

Three years now attending the School of Hard Knocks. Learning this stuff all by tryle and error with a bit of help from a few knowledgeable individuals.

Always had an intrest in working on projects like this.

Good shooting,

BTSniper

[no34570]

I want one!! Can I afford one?

Me too.....I'm in the same boat,can I afford one?

[no34570]

WOW! If I could get something like that for my .308s I would be a swageaholic!

Armorer

I can relate to that,love one for my 30/06

[Wayne Smith]

My other question is can I run one of these with my Hollywood Sr. press? Or is it limited to a heavy duty swaging press?

[BT Sniper]

I am only using reloading presses so far for all my swaging needs. RCBS Rockchucker and Lee Classic Cast are my main two. So as long as you can fit a 7/8-14 regular threaded die and a shell holder style base punch or even better a threaded base punch of some sorts yes you will be able to use any of the dies I design.

The smaller the caliber bullet the less pressure/strength/force is needed to make bullets/jackets with. As for the copper tubing jacket and .257 bullets it could be done on even a 2nd rate reloading press IMOP.

BT

[BT Sniper]

My goal is to make it all affordable. Less then corbins but not cheap. Figure for less then the cost of a new riffle or profits from one sold, you should be able to get a two die set. It is all the potential extras that can add up but as I always said it is a hobby and we can spend as little or as much as we want.

BTSniper